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Standstill Pro Analysis - Lykke vs Paige Pierce, Bradley Williams vs Corey Ellis and Kristian Kuoksa
- Thread starter sidewinder22
- Start date
Great video! Showcasing two pros who otherwise have good mechanics next to eachother like this was really enlightening.
It sure is. After watching sidewinders analysis I went looking for footage of Niklas Anttila throwing standstills to study his weight shift. Didn't find any. I did however, find this:
That hole is 155 meters, or 508 feet, and it looks like he's parked.
It sure is. After watching sidewinders analysis I went looking for footage of Niklas Anttila throwing standstills to study his weight shift. Didn't find any. I did however, find this:
That hole is 155 meters, or 508 feet, and it looks like he's parked.
HyzerRoc
Birdie Member
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It was a little awkward when Lykke pointed out that her stance is too wide and Williams told her to keep throwing in that wide stance after she kept falling on her back leg after the swing.
Interesting to see that Kuoksa gets away with a rather wide stance as well while still being able to shift his weight.
Interesting to see that Kuoksa gets away with a rather wide stance as well while still being able to shift his weight.
RowingBoats
Eagle Member
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Whew...that is a sick standstill.
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Yeah I was SMH.
Kuoksa is striding into a wider stance and must have elite hip mobility to get his rear thigh horizontal.
timothy42b
Eagle Member
Were there rear views on any of those? I'd be curious about the torso angle to the ground. (I've watched yours of course! Just not the others.)
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Unfortunately not.
The speed that Corey executes that is insane! Interesting to see where he falls behind (player A) with those loading lags and then blasts thru faster than player A.
Do we like the way his back leg is perpendicular? Is that a good thing?
Awesome video!!!
Do we like the way his back leg is perpendicular? Is that a good thing?
Awesome video!!!
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I'd say his rear foot is flared a good 20-30 angle back off from perpendicular.The speed that Corey executes that is insane! Interesting to see where he falls behind (player A) with those loading lags and then blasts thru faster than player A.
Do we like the way his back leg is perpendicular? Is that a good thing?
Awesome video!!!
His throw is interestingly different, the way his back knee is straight up and down to his foot is something I don't think I've seen before. Everyone else pushes it on an angle and collapses forward. I wonder if his higher and tighter center of gravity helps him spin out faster to the release. I don't know much about him or his distance or whatever but it looks like a "protected form" as in protecting from further injury..
I will watch more of his stuff... his compact form might be helpful to me at this juncture in life. It looks easier to do without straining the knees, I'm gonna try tightening up my stance.
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Corey's rear knee still remains leveraged inside his rear foot. If you watch Corey and me at the end we have the same exact lower body motion. Pretty sure Wiggins and GG are very similar as well.
Nick481
Birdie Member
That was a cool video, I didn't even realize there was so much footage of elite pros training stand throws. Nice to see a few different "looks" that are getting the job done well for the respective individuals' body types.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Awesome vid & thread, thanks for doing it SW!
On this point specifically, I used to look at a lot of Schusterick and I got myself tangled up misinterpreting the way his body moves. I ended up trying to spin my body around a vertical axis, which more or less accounts for injuries and many of the problems I'm still working on today (well, plus my weightlifting history). I found it impossible to learn from Schusterick's move because I didn't understand how the "same" move would work in my own body.
Ellis' move reminds me of Schusterick, and their bodies have more in common than mine does with either of them. I'm somewhere closer to a SW22 or Jenkins or Tattar (or GG with way less athleticism and mobility) and they wear versions of the "same" move differently on a superficial level, but not so much on a deeper level.
IMO there are some meaningful differences between some of these moves, but what they all seem to have in common are the weight shift mechanics, leverage points, relative posture, and tilted axis (though I would argue this last point does vary a bit depending on the player - watch closely how much the CoM "swings" like a pendulum in each player, also related to some of the differences in Williams vs Ellis). Some people are on different coordinates of the horizontal/vertical tradeoff (and this can pop up in several ways other than Eagle vs. GG: e.g., some people remain more compressed (e.g., Schusterick) swinging through the plant, whereas others exhibit some rise (e.g., Ellis)). I think some of those differences are worth critiquing, but some of them just depend on other parts of the form and the player's body.
We're not robots, and I think there are also some artful differences in form that don't matter a ton but tend to distract people, and of course even high-level throwers can continue to find things to work on.
#NeverSkipLegOrMobilityDay:
I agree with SW that Kuoksa is sporting some elite body features. In addition to mobility, he has very strong legs for his size. There are debates about the role of strength, but one thing you can take to the bank is that your legs need to be strong enough to support your own body in athletic motion, and in transferring the dynamic peak forces that a power shot demands. Some people develop it naturally if they grow up throwing (or doing something close to it), some people need to work on it if they didn't.
Hot Take (or not?):
I do think the people with longer/high leverage bodies are probably doing more work with their levers, whereas stouter players are doing more work with their shift of mass/mass sequence. What you can get out of which explains the differences in "ideal" forms across body types. I don't really think that's controversial but maybe someone does. I don't think CC Sabathia would do well if he tried to throw like Tim Lincecum, and I don't think Ryan Howard would have been slugging as much if he tried to bat like Jeff Bagwell (without significant body changes). Nevertheless, I do think there are fairly large, but limited, opportunities for each and every body to adapt, and you don't know what they are until you try.
On this point specifically, I used to look at a lot of Schusterick and I got myself tangled up misinterpreting the way his body moves. I ended up trying to spin my body around a vertical axis, which more or less accounts for injuries and many of the problems I'm still working on today (well, plus my weightlifting history). I found it impossible to learn from Schusterick's move because I didn't understand how the "same" move would work in my own body.
Ellis' move reminds me of Schusterick, and their bodies have more in common than mine does with either of them. I'm somewhere closer to a SW22 or Jenkins or Tattar (or GG with way less athleticism and mobility) and they wear versions of the "same" move differently on a superficial level, but not so much on a deeper level.
IMO there are some meaningful differences between some of these moves, but what they all seem to have in common are the weight shift mechanics, leverage points, relative posture, and tilted axis (though I would argue this last point does vary a bit depending on the player - watch closely how much the CoM "swings" like a pendulum in each player, also related to some of the differences in Williams vs Ellis). Some people are on different coordinates of the horizontal/vertical tradeoff (and this can pop up in several ways other than Eagle vs. GG: e.g., some people remain more compressed (e.g., Schusterick) swinging through the plant, whereas others exhibit some rise (e.g., Ellis)). I think some of those differences are worth critiquing, but some of them just depend on other parts of the form and the player's body.
We're not robots, and I think there are also some artful differences in form that don't matter a ton but tend to distract people, and of course even high-level throwers can continue to find things to work on.
#NeverSkipLegOrMobilityDay:
I agree with SW that Kuoksa is sporting some elite body features. In addition to mobility, he has very strong legs for his size. There are debates about the role of strength, but one thing you can take to the bank is that your legs need to be strong enough to support your own body in athletic motion, and in transferring the dynamic peak forces that a power shot demands. Some people develop it naturally if they grow up throwing (or doing something close to it), some people need to work on it if they didn't.
Hot Take (or not?):
I do think the people with longer/high leverage bodies are probably doing more work with their levers, whereas stouter players are doing more work with their shift of mass/mass sequence. What you can get out of which explains the differences in "ideal" forms across body types. I don't really think that's controversial but maybe someone does. I don't think CC Sabathia would do well if he tried to throw like Tim Lincecum, and I don't think Ryan Howard would have been slugging as much if he tried to bat like Jeff Bagwell (without significant body changes). Nevertheless, I do think there are fairly large, but limited, opportunities for each and every body to adapt, and you don't know what they are until you try.
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Nick481
Birdie Member
I usually only do standstills with putters during my fieldwork warmup progression but this thread got me curious about what I could do with a driver, so I threw a few today. They were all around 500' but this was the best one, over 520 on a golf height medium s-curve line. Video analysis shows that the release was around 68.5 mph.
Also sorry about the glitchy looking slowmo, I had to ai frame interpolate from 60fps recording up to 120 to get the 4x slowmo and it struggles with fast moving objects.
Also sorry about the glitchy looking slowmo, I had to ai frame interpolate from 60fps recording up to 120 to get the 4x slowmo and it struggles with fast moving objects.
RowingBoats
Eagle Member
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Damn, 520' standstill is a straight smash. How tall are you?
Nick481
Birdie Member
6'2" without shoes (wingspan is the same) and right around 195lbs at the moment
RowingBoats
Eagle Member
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Haha nice. I figured you must be somewhat tall. I don't think I can physically do that.6'2" without shoes and right around 195lbs at the moment
You have about 10' for every inch above my height lol.
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Nick481
Birdie Member
Absolutely, the extra length and leverage seem to always make things a bit easier in these throwing sports.
Nick481
Birdie Member
Just saw this part haha, it sounds like you have a cannon nonetheless because you are not giving up too much distance @ only 10' per inch of height!
