It's just like the Max, trex, and Destoyer when they first came out. Nearly impossible to get to "S out". Now both of those discs turnover and I move on to the Xcals and Discraft's force. I think the Force will win for hardest disc to s out ever. Exception may be their flick. I use the force and xcal for huge hyzers and spike hyzers. We have a fun hole after we play 18 and have now made it where you have to throw over a triple stacked power line to get to the basket. It is about 50 ft up to the top and about a 125-150 feet away so you have to throw a monster spike up over that pole. These discs work great for that. There is a trick to the spin on the xcal but I have only done it once by accident. I flipped mine just briefly yesterday, just as I thought it would flatten and go into the road and hit a car, it faded real hard left and skipped a mile. Ended up being the perfect shot for that hole, hope I can mimic it next time out.
Side note: the Pro line destroyers are very difficult to turnover. They resemble the xcals. Stars, not so much. Go figure.