SuperWookie Form Thread

[SuperWookie]

Paul has 100% of his weight on the front leg even on short upshots and putts.

My best throws feel like perfect balance. Ken Jarvis doing distance practice.


Rotate to power pocket not thru it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW-vWZgnNSk&t=159s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2eWfwpahfk#t=1m30s

Core compression pumps the swing so your body is like a piston. Add forward momentum and dynamic balance the piston acts more horizontal to the swing plane with more redirection to crack the whip.

Yeah, I notice this. And that is why I'm asking HOW does he do it? How are you doing it? It just doesn't add up. If I were to stand still and try to hit a golf ball, tennis ball or baseball, I could not hit it hard at all. I need forward momentum to help build up enough speed in my arms to sling them into the ball and crush it.

And I don't even understand what rotate to power pocket not thru it means. Nor core compression pumps..... I can understand my legs compressing down when the weight hits the ground, then pushing back up. But I don't get how my core can compress or even what it means here.

I'll just watch more videos and keep on messing around and hopefully some year this will all make sense. I can't even imagine how horrible it had to be 5-10 years or more ago trying to learn this cr*p. Pre youtube and pre forums. This THE most frustrated I've ever been in my life trying to figure out how to do something, and that's WITH all this help from you guys and youtube. I had more luck learning trigonometry in HS then this, and I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE math. Same goes for foreign language and chemistry. Those were IMPOSSIBLE for me to learn, and it took everything I had to get a C+. But the important part is, I eventually sort of learned them and could pass. I can't figure this sh*t out! It's driving me crazy, haha. Hats off to you SW, HUB, and thousands of others for somehow figuring this stuff out without all the help.

 

[SuperWookie]

Should be able to push the wall with your weight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4&t=3m26s

Maybe this all just semantics here. In that video or in real life hitting a golf ball, baseball, or tennis ball, I personally am not feeling ANY push into the ball. I am PULLING the club or bat or racket into the ball and all that energy gets wiped through and into the ball. I never push. But I see how you are describing it in your video. It makes sense. Just not to me and trying to THROW a disc, which to me is a pulling motion. We're probably talking about the same thing, just referring to it in different ways.

Either way, I need to continue to watch your videos and then practice the stuff in them. I don't do that enough and it's hard to find time and a place to do it. I think I might invest in a golf net for my garage this fall/winter, so I can work on all these drills you have in your videos and stop worrying about throwing and the end result. If I can't even get into these necessary positions, how can I throw well, right? Thanks SW

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, I notice this. And that is why I'm asking HOW does he do it? How are you doing it? It just doesn't add up. If I were to stand still and try to hit a golf ball, tennis ball or baseball, I could not hit it hard at all. I need forward momentum to help build up enough speed in my arms to sling them into the ball and crush it.

And I don't even understand what rotate to power pocket not thru it means. Nor core compression pumps..... I can understand my legs compressing down when the weight hits the ground, then pushing back up. But I don't get how my core can compress or even what it means here.

I'll just watch more videos and keep on messing around and hopefully some year this will all make sense. I can't even imagine how horrible it had to be 5-10 years or more ago trying to learn this cr*p. Pre youtube and pre forums. This THE most frustrated I've ever been in my life trying to figure out how to do something, and that's WITH all this help from you guys and youtube. I had more luck learning trigonometry in HS then this, and I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE math. Same goes for foreign language and chemistry. Those were IMPOSSIBLE for me to learn, and it took everything I had to get a C+. But the important part is, I eventually sort of learned them and could pass. I can't figure this sh*t out! It's driving me crazy, haha. Hats off to you SW, HUB, and thousands of others for somehow figuring this stuff out without all the help.

Not sure what the question is on rotating to the power pocket vs thru it as I demonstrate both in that 1st vid.

Your core muscles, abs, glutes compress and extend the torso as well as the legs.

 

[UhhNegative]

Maybe this all just semantics here. In that video or in real life hitting a golf ball, baseball, or tennis ball, I personally am not feeling ANY push into the ball. I am PULLING the club or bat or racket into the ball and all that energy gets wiped through and into the ball. I never push. But I see how you are describing it in your video. It makes sense. Just not to me and trying to THROW a disc, which to me is a pulling motion. We're probably talking about the same thing, just referring to it in different ways.

Either way, I need to continue to watch your videos and then practice the stuff in them. I don't do that enough and it's hard to find time and a place to do it. I think I might invest in a golf net for my garage this fall/winter, so I can work on all these drills you have in your videos and stop worrying about throwing and the end result. If I can't even get into these necessary positions, how can I throw well, right? Thanks SW

Hammer drill! Hammer drill! All you need is a hammer, and a place where you won't throw it through any windows.

 

[UhhNegative]

Should be able to push the wall with your weight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4&t=3m26s

So like... a push using your lats?

 

[NoseDownKing]

Everything clicked for me once I started swinging the disc. I can throw 380-400 with fairways and hybrid drivers really effortlessly. And believe me when I say it. A comfortable 380-400 is the most valuable skill yoi can have in long wooded courses.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[UhhNegative]

Yeah, I notice this. And that is why I'm asking HOW does he do it? How are you doing it? It just doesn't add up. If I were to stand still and try to hit a golf ball, tennis ball or baseball, I could not hit it hard at all. I need forward momentum to help build up enough speed in my arms to sling them into the ball and crush it.

And I don't even understand what rotate to power pocket not thru it means. Nor core compression pumps..... I can understand my legs compressing down when the weight hits the ground, then pushing back up. But I don't get how my core can compress or even what it means here.

I'll just watch more videos and keep on messing around and hopefully some year this will all make sense. I can't even imagine how horrible it had to be 5-10 years or more ago trying to learn this cr*p. Pre youtube and pre forums. This THE most frustrated I've ever been in my life trying to figure out how to do something, and that's WITH all this help from you guys and youtube. I had more luck learning trigonometry in HS then this, and I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE math. Same goes for foreign language and chemistry. Those were IMPOSSIBLE for me to learn, and it took everything I had to get a C+. But the important part is, I eventually sort of learned them and could pass. I can't figure this sh*t out! It's driving me crazy, haha. Hats off to you SW, HUB, and thousands of others for somehow figuring this stuff out without all the help.

Heh, I have a degree in chemistry and throwing a disc is way more difficult for me haha. Doesn't it feel way better when you work hard for something though? Achievement is nothing without struggle.

 

[sidewinder22]

Maybe this all just semantics here. In that video or in real life hitting a golf ball, baseball, or tennis ball, I personally am not feeling ANY push into the ball. I am PULLING the club or bat or racket into the ball and all that energy gets wiped through and into the ball. I never push. But I see how you are describing it in your video. It makes sense. Just not to me and trying to THROW a disc, which to me is a pulling motion. We're probably talking about the same thing, just referring to it in different ways.

Either way, I need to continue to watch your videos and then practice the stuff in them. I don't do that enough and it's hard to find time and a place to do it. I think I might invest in a golf net for my garage this fall/winter, so I can work on all these drills you have in your videos and stop worrying about throwing and the end result. If I can't even get into these necessary positions, how can I throw well, right? Thanks SW

Are you pulling or pushing the ball?

To me pulling means my elbow is flexing and retracting my hand toward my center. Pushing means my elbow is extending and pushing my hand away from my center.

 

[sidewinder22]

So like... a push using your lats?

I would say triceps.

 

[UhhNegative]

Are you pulling or pushing the ball?

To me pulling means my elbow is flexing and retracting my hand toward my center. Pushing means my elbow is extending and pushing my hand away from my center.

In that context I see what you are saying. I guess to me pushing sounds like an active muscle thing, whereas you don't need to consciously "push" but rather use the momentum and bracing and tight grip to let the disc push itself. Keeping with the ball on a string analogy, I am "pulling" or at least resisting the centripetal force of the momentum of the ball. At release it's centripetal force being converted to tangential (of course with lag caused by the joints)?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Keep in mind that from my first form post on here, until the point that I had some idea what was happening, was a full year of throwing almost every single day. And we would spin endlessly on here about this stuff. Even when I had an idea, that didn't mean that I wouldn't get out of balance and slip back into bad habits.

There's countless variables and it's really easy to get sidetracked onto things that barely make any difference.

My suggestion is to remain patient. You are at your current skill level because that's the amount of work you've put into your skill set. That's not an insult. I'm at my current skill level, SW's at his current skill, SP too. We've all put in various hours of various work and drills. Sometimes it takes a year of swinging a baseball bat left handed. Sometimes you're a freak and learn it in a few months. For normal people in the fat part of the bell curve, we have a ton of work to put in to develop this motion.

After 5+ years (gulp) of working on my form, I can still say that I learn stuff all the time when pop into Form & Analysis and see what you guys are talking about. Seeing what helps people click is always amazing.

For me, it comes down being able to stand on my right leg and just rotate back and forth. Finding the balance, posture and dynamics to stay in balance when you do that seems fundamental. Once that part is done, you start getting as forward as you can on the plant leg, while still remaining in balance.



A ton of the work of a "swing change" can be done without a disc: find the time each day to work your balance & posture. It will come, but nobody should ever say it'll be easy.

 

[sidewinder22]

In that context I see what you are saying. I guess to me pushing sounds like an active muscle thing, whereas you don't need to consciously "push" but rather use the momentum and bracing and tight grip to let the disc push itself. Keeping with the ball on a string analogy, I am "pulling" or at least resisting the centripetal force of the momentum of the ball. At release it's centripetal force being converted to tangential (of course with lag caused by the joints)?

It is active or assistive in order to accelerate the disc faster than its centrifugal force alone.

 

[sidewinder22]

Keep in mind that from my first form post on here, until the point that I had some idea what was happening, was a full year of throwing almost every single day. And we would spin endlessly on here about this stuff. Even when I had an idea, that didn't mean that I wouldn't get out of balance and slip back into bad habits.

There's countless variables and it's really easy to get sidetracked onto things that barely make any difference.

My suggestion is to remain patient. You are at your current skill level because that's the amount of work you've put into your skill set. That's not an insult. I'm at my current skill level, SW's at his current skill, SP too. We've all put in various hours of various work and drills. Sometimes it takes a year of swinging a baseball bat left handed. Sometimes you're a freak and learn it in a few months. For normal people in the fat part of the bell curve, we have a ton of work to put in to develop this motion.


A ton of the work of a "swing change" can be done without a disc: find the time each day to work your balance & posture. It will come, but nobody should ever say it'll be easy.

There is the theory that it takes 10,000hrs of practice to become master of a skill. Obviously helps to have some transferrable skill.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

 

[RFrance]

After five years being on DGCR I'm finally in the 340 - 350 range with rereading and rewatching videos in all of the Technique and Form Analysis forums and practicing every day. A lot of that progress has been in just the last four months when things starting coming together with understanding the basic concepts: feeling the weight of the disc, ball on a string, lag, balance, and rhythm. I just started incorporating the One Leg Drill into every practice now that I understand how fundamental it is. It's a long slog with progress measured slowly with inches gained, not feet. I'm 63 yrs old at 5'6" 143 and I think I can get to the 400 foot mark next year. We'll see.

 

[SuperWookie]

Keep in mind that from my first form post on here, until the point that I had some idea what was happening, was a full year of throwing almost every single day. And we would spin endlessly on here about this stuff. Even when I had an idea, that didn't mean that I wouldn't get out of balance and slip back into bad habits.

There's countless variables and it's really easy to get sidetracked onto things that barely make any difference.

My suggestion is to remain patient. You are at your current skill level because that's the amount of work you've put into your skill set. That's not an insult. I'm at my current skill level, SW's at his current skill, SP too. We've all put in various hours of various work and drills. Sometimes it takes a year of swinging a baseball bat left handed. Sometimes you're a freak and learn it in a few months. For normal people in the fat part of the bell curve, we have a ton of work to put in to develop this motion.

After 5+ years (gulp) of working on my form, I can still say that I learn stuff all the time when pop into Form & Analysis and see what you guys are talking about. Seeing what helps people click is always amazing.

For me, it comes down being able to stand on my right leg and just rotate back and forth. Finding the balance, posture and dynamics to stay in balance when you do that seems fundamental. Once that part is done, you start getting as forward as you can on the plant leg, while still remaining in balance.



A ton of the work of a "swing change" can be done without a disc: find the time each day to work your balance & posture. It will come, but nobody should ever say it'll be easy.

Haha, being patient is not one of my strengths Especially when it comes to sports or things I'm good at. I'm very good at a lot of sports, so my expectations are too high I'm sure. I "expect" to be good to great at Disc golf in not much time. So since it's not coming along at the rate I expected, I'm very disappointed. And there's nothing I can do about it. I can't change the fact that I'm inpatient and expect to do well at all sports. But I need to accept the fact that my expectations are unrealistic, keep practicing, reading, watching, asking, and realize this is going to take much longer than I want, and it's not going to be so easy like most of the other sports.

My rock climbing was the same way as Disc golf. It was really hard for me, it did not come easy, and it took TONS of work just to get decent (not even good). My body is not meant for it. But I stuck with it and practiced hard and just kept going. And I didn't get to where I wanted, as other things in life took precedent, but I did get pretty good. And it was fun. I just need to TRY and remember each time I go out isn't a contest to see how good I can be compared to Simon or other ridiculously good Disc throwers. I need to just do MY best and realize, this might take longer than I want.

Thanks for the pep talk, and the video. That is a great bunch of info in there for me to think about, work on, and practice. I have no idea why, but when I watch your videos and listen to you, this stuff just makes more sense. Nothing against SW! He has a pleethora of outstanding videos and posts on here. My brain just has a hard time relating or understanding his way of teaching. All of you have been very helpful and I appreciate it! It's just so frustrating when you guys literally are telling us how to do this, and yet, some of us can't understand it and then do it. I just need to keep practicing, throwing, and studying and trying to stay positive. It's sooo hard though certain times. Feels like this literally is never going to happen. But a lot of you have been there, and stayed with it, and it eventually happened. So there is hope. Thanks

 

[UhhNegative]

Haha, being patient is not one of my strengths Especially when it comes to sports or things I'm good at. I'm very good at a lot of sports, so my expectations are too high I'm sure. I "expect" to be good to great at Disc golf in not much time. So since it's not coming along at the rate I expected, I'm very disappointed. And there's nothing I can do about it. I can't change the fact that I'm inpatient and expect to do well at all sports. But I need to accept the fact that my expectations are unrealistic, keep practicing, reading, watching, asking, and realize this is going to take much longer than I want, and it's not going to be so easy like most of the other sports.

My rock climbing was the same way as Disc golf. It was really hard for me, it did not come easy, and it took TONS of work just to get decent (not even good). My body is not meant for it. But I stuck with it and practiced hard and just kept going. And I didn't get to where I wanted, as other things in life took precedent, but I did get pretty good. And it was fun. I just need to TRY and remember each time I go out isn't a contest to see how good I can be compared to Simon or other ridiculously good Disc throwers. I need to just do MY best and realize, this might take longer than I want.

Thanks for the pep talk, and the video. That is a great bunch of info in there for me to think about, work on, and practice. I have no idea why, but when I watch your videos and listen to you, this stuff just makes more sense. Nothing against SW! He has a pleethora of outstanding videos and posts on here. My brain just has a hard time relating or understanding his way of teaching. All of you have been very helpful and I appreciate it! It's just so frustrating when you guys literally are telling us how to do this, and yet, some of us can't understand it and then do it. I just need to keep practicing, throwing, and studying and trying to stay positive. It's sooo hard though certain times. Feels like this literally is never going to happen. But a lot of you have been there, and stayed with it, and it eventually happened. So there is hope. Thanks

I struggle with similar things. I've been a naturally gifted student, but the things I get obsessed with always seem to be things I'm not naturally good at. Basically most sports. Something about having to work really hard for something is both very rewarding, yet frustrating when you see how easy it comes to some people.

 

[Sad2980]

I struggle with similar things. I've been a naturally gifted student, but the things I get obsessed with always seem to be things I'm not naturally good at. Basically most sports. Something about having to work really hard for something is both very rewarding, yet frustrating when you see how easy it comes to some people.

I just wanted to chime in that I am also struggling with the difficulty of disc golf because I am used to picking things up pretty quickly, but I think the challenge of it is what keeps me striving to learn more. It's a difficult sport. I'm pretty sure I'm worse than everyone that has commented on this thread, but that drives me to learn from everyone and keeps more working towards becoming a better disc golfer. That and the sound of those chains when things come together.

 

[SuperWookie]

"Try the bodycheck feel like you're just going to blast through someone with the right shoulder/upper arm. That way you should get your head over the leg and the shoulder should be in front of the leg. I don't care about throw or rotation or anything, feel how to be forward and commit to going through, and see where your arm positions result from that when you tone it back a little." quote from SP

So this is something I have a question about the logistics. I keep seeing you and SW talking to others about making sure to get up stacked on the front leg, with the rest of the body all lined up at release. But there are two things that really confuse me about this idea.

One is, that most pros are not like this when they throw. At least on hard throws with any type of X step. They are bent forward at the waist into a reverse K position with their hips back, and their shoulder and front foot out. So why are they not stacked up like you guys keep saying to do? And why is that alright? And why do you keep suggesting that "we" need to be straight in a line up and down?

And two, if you had this momentum moving forward, how in the heck can you be 100% stacked up on your front leg and NOT tip over forward? Like when I play tennis or anyone that knows how to play, hits a one handed backhand. You move forward to the ball, then rotate from a closed position into the ball and then slightly through and up on your front leg. But not all the way stacked up. You are still a little back of fully stacked straight up and down. Otherwise, you would tip over. It's only on touch backhands or just trying to "place it" back in the court shots, do you stack more upright and almost completely inline. And even then, you're still not like how SW shows in a lot of the markups of his throw with his head past his front foot, and his shoulders inline with his front foot/leg. This photo shows a great angle sideways of Rog whomping a backhand. And see how he's actually leaning back a little? That's the tug of war HUB talks about. It's this forward movement into the ball, then the bracing to sling your arm into it, and through it. The bracing creates that speed and whip at the last second to swing your arm through super fast and smash the ball. If I tried to lean forward more and have my head and upper body out over my front foot, I'd lose that leverage and power on the ball, plus I'd tip over forward. So I'm really confused.

So can you guys explain this? Why is it so important to be UP on your front leg at the hit and have a straight line down from your shoulders to your front plant foot? What happens when you aren't completely inline? Is there a large distance or accuracy lose or is it more fine tuning? I feel like if I get up completely in a straight line at the hit, I will be tipping over forward. And I thought we wanted to resist that. To lean back away from the hit, like HUB shows with many different drills and discussions. Same in the back swing. He talks about being in a tug of war with someone behind you, then in front of you. So this idea of being past that, and all the way up and inline feels like I would tip over forward and NOT be in balance. So I'm having a hard time not only understanding just the logistics of it, but WHY should we be doing it?

Thanks

 

[SuperWookie]

Another thing I have more questions about that I realize I've never asked specifically is about the arm and this idea of loose arm or sling shot arm. I hear all sorts of descriptions of the arm and how it should be during a golf disc throw, but I realized I really don't have any idea how loose or firm it should be, especially when related to other sports. So I watch videos from pros like Simon, Seppo, Eagle, etc. And then I read tons of stuff on here as well all the time. And I keep hearing and reading about having a loose arm. But what does that mean, and how loose is "loose?"

So I'm going to create this fictitious scale of 1-5 for the purposes of this question. 1 being a total noodle arm that's like jello and no conscious use of the arm to throw vs 5 which would be a totally flexed fairly firm arm that is being very controlled.

In golf, I would say the arms are around a 2 most of the backswing, then they probably move up to a 4 on the left arm at the hit, and the right arm a little less, maybe around 3.

Baseball, I would say the arms are around a 2-3 in the preswing and back swing. Then right around the hit, up to about a 4 again.

Throwing a baseball would be around a 2 before you throw and around 3ish at the throw.

And tennis would be similar with the arm around a 2-3 pre hit, and around 4/4.5 at the hit.

So if you could use this scale, what would the arm be in Disc golf throwing? I'm just so confused about a lot of these things as I don't have a good teacher in person to show me and help me learn. I see HUB and others do swing drills with no disc, and it "looks" like they're just whipping their arm around, not actively using it ever. But that can't be right? Can it?

And I just realized I've never really asked specifically how loose or firm the arm should be at the different parts of the swing. I feel like it's supposed to be pretty loose and almost no arm for the majority, but at the same time somehow using your arm harder right at the hit? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking. Thanks