Maybe this was talked about earlier, but what about low, line drive thumbers ? I've been known to throw a low thumber to get a giant skip to the right.
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Texas Collegiate Championships- No Overhands?
- Thread starter biscoe
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Of course, those aren't sand traps. But this leads to the BG/DG disconnect where the primary challenges "designed" for ball golfers who miss the fairway are surface areas - sand traps, waste areas, short rough, deep rough, pine needles/leaf beds, boundaries of water hazards - where you likely have to modify your club choice and/or stance and/or swing technique to skillfully execute an accurate shot with enough distance versus defining automatic penalty hazards - OB/2m/mandos/lost - in disc golf design where it's becoming increasingly more common on terrain with minimal trees to simply penalize players rather than challenge their shot-making and recovery skills like ball golf.
I think we all understand that trees have provided the best equivalent to challenging shot shaping, disc choice, distance and accuracy for disc golfers in a way similar to hazards in ball golf. But we don't always have trees or enough of them, especially on ball golf courses used for temp DG courses. So the experimental quest is to hopefully find ways that haven't been tried yet to provide similar challenge equivalents to trees versus simply penalizing errant throws.
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krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Lower than the top of a tree as a mando has been used for individual holes at both USDGC and Ledgestone. Here is UDSGC Hole 4:
"The street, all areas beyond the street, and the fenced maintenance area behind
the green are OB. Mandatory left at large oak tree. Drop zone marked in fairway.
To complete this mandatory, the disc must also clearly pass below some portion
of the trees when crossing the mandatory line to the correct side."
"The street, all areas beyond the street, and the fenced maintenance area behind
the green are OB. Mandatory left at large oak tree. Drop zone marked in fairway.
To complete this mandatory, the disc must also clearly pass below some portion
of the trees when crossing the mandatory line to the correct side."
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
There is an annual non-sanctioned event at Agnes Moffit Park in Houston. Part of the format is that players on your card have shot cards. Four if I remember. At any given time they can call the shot you throw, but they only have four of them. And yes, the leader on the card is the one most likely to get, "carded."
The event is supposed to be a blast and is always well attended. It seems to me that such events are the heart of disc golf. For sure, it's been going on much longer than some "serious" events.
The event is supposed to be a blast and is always well attended. It seems to me that such events are the heart of disc golf. For sure, it's been going on much longer than some "serious" events.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Just watched this. Wow! There were some wicked grenades thrown. But always, as a utility shot.
Can't say I agree with your sentiment of Chuck's statement. You wouldn't play a game of high-level soccer on a pitch that was pitched just as you shouldn't play a game of high-level disc golf on a course that didn't have enough 'hinderances' inherent to it (so you had to "trick it up" with clown's mouths, etc.).
Some times ya just gotta say 'No'....
Nobody is objecting to rules tweaks for random tournaments. That is what the X-tier designation is for. But serious events deserve serious rules. The "no overhand" rule fails because it is unspecific, unenforceable, and unfairly penalizes a subsection of players. It is the solution to the problem of having a bad course, when the real solution is to pick a better course.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Perhaps in theory, just not in the real world of competition where you can't say "No" to tournament hosts using mostly open courses. In fact, even if you could, where would you draw the line for how many trees, what density, what type what height, etc.? Better to figure out ways to emulate the play dynamics of trees if it's possible than just say "No".
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Where are these vids?Just watched this. Wow! There were some wicked grenades thrown. But always, as a utility shot.
If you can't "influence" them away from using a crappy course then you'll get what you deserve.
If you can't look at a course Chuck and figure 'how many trees, what density, etc', I've been giving you way too much credit all these years.
As for your last sentence, again 'you'll get what you deserve'.
Just bizarre... I always operated under the idea that you could do any throw you wanted to no matter what. How many ppl overhand off the tee? Not too many I think. Not much of an advantage since so few can even do that as a drive.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
- "Crappy course", by what definition and with what influence?
- I can actually measure tree density by hole and by course using the ratings process. But unclear where your "crappy" lines should be set nor how justified for holes of different pars and total course.
- Your extreme approach is untenable for managing the amateur game. It might work for the competitive sport if only there were enough money in it with enough hosts able to provide non-crappy courses for events.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
As you've noticed, I'm a Spurs fan. Go look at the dimentions of their pitch. It's the smallest in the EPL and gives them definite advantages.
Now go look at the international pitches used in CONCACAF. They definitely impact the games played. Finally, look at how fans behave in matches against the US and even more so, how referees in U.S. matches make calls. Then come back and we'll talk.
Chuck is simply saying that you have to be practical. There aren't funds to fix every problem in disc golf or in international football.
Look, all fun aside, I don't care what players throw or when (I reserve the right to change that position for comedic purposes and to annoy certain posters). But i also think a TD should be allowed to run her event the way he wants to. For those who don't like it, don't play. That said, for pro play, if your goal is credibility and audience, there should be a standard and it should be fairly immutable.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
You're gonna love some of those throws, I promise.
I'll give you that this works for most tournaments, but in this particular instance, for a lot of the teams there, this is pretty much their only chance to qualify for Collegiate Nationals, especially given the three bids which are available (see my explanation below). Given that, to restrict the ability to throw overhands off the tee tilts the field unfairly against teams who have someone who either throws mostly overhand or uses the overhand to their advantage (like I said, my game is an example: I throw FH and BH, but will use thumbers for lines where it is easier to hit the particular landing zone more accurately and with less risk). And given that this tournament is pretty much a must play for collegiate teams from a region who want to try to qualify for Nationals since it may be the only tournament that's practical for them to travel to, tilting the field in this way and saying "if you don't like it don't come" isn't practical nor fair. As has also been established, thumbers and tomahawks can be used as lower, penetrating shots to set the thrower up for an ideal second shot. A better course of action is cheap, temporary triple mandos made of PVC pipe or to move the tournament to a more mature course.
Explanation of only chance:
It's the only qualifier in Texas and the next closest from the map looks to be way up in Arkansas, and that event is its own special case since it's a conference championship (a good deal of the collegiate teams in Arkansas and Mississippi and the surrounding region have their own regular season of match tournaments. Pretty cool set-up). For smaller schools who lack the funds to really travel, especially those in the southern and western parts of Texas, this may be their only chance to qualify (there is an open registration period as well, but that can be a bit of a crapshoot).
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
The collegiant thing is pretty new, and I admit i don't treat it with the same gravitas as pro events. I've always seen it as a step above recreational play. If the argument is that it is to be treated seriously, well yeah. But if that's the case, it needs some structural organization, top to bottom.
I would say, as someone who has played in collegiate events for the past few years, it gets more and more structured every year as it has grown and become more popular and more of a thing. I have to give John Baker a shoutout, he's really been working hard since taking over running College Disc Golf and has really improved both Nationals and the whole qualifying scheme (a few Pete May interjections aside, that is). But that really is a discussion for a different thread.
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