The Case For and Against Stand-And-Deliver

[Allurex]

I only have one question about this topic-

"Why are we even talking about this?"


This seems like just another pointless topic for DGCR to ramble on about for no apparent reason.

 

[BraveThrower43]

I only have one question about this topic-

"Why are we even talking about this?"


This seems like just another pointless topic for DGCR to ramble on about for no apparent reason.

I think you answered your own question.

 

[grodney]

So in the end, Sauls and Garub make compelling arguments that history is key, and without a real problem (and a known solution), we keep doing it the way we're doing it. I tend to disagree.

For me, if we look back to the early days and say "What if the original rules included such-and-such?", and if we can agree that it's likely our game would be better today if that had taken place, then I see no reason to not make the change.

(The underlined "if" in that sentence is obviously a huge "if" on this particular issue, but I'm mostly talking big-picture here. As in: Does it ever make sense to make a revisionist change without a specific problem?)

Chuck's insights into a theoretical future where it would actually matter were a fun read and provide additional food for thought, and I thank him for that.

For all the drama queens saying they'd never play again, or that participation would drop dramatically --- please. It's not that big of a deal. Really. If a change to a game would get you that worked up, how do you deal with life? Nevertheless, I have appreciated all the feedback.

 

[DavidSauls]

For me, if we look back to the early days and say "What if the original rules included such-and-such?", and if we can agree that it's likely our game would be better today if that had taken place, then I see no reason to not make the change.

It's a good argument---I've used it in other rules discussions myself. But the cautions include---

---once people are ingrained with a certain rule, a radical change is likely to displease far more people than it pleases. After 10 years it won't matter, but in the meantime, and unpopular rule, like an unpopular law, can be detrimental.

---it's not just this one rule. There are probably dozens that someone could argue, "If we'd done this originally everyone would be used to it by now." If rules are constantly changing, and in ways that have a major impact, you lose a great deal of continuity in the sport.

That's why I think rules, especially major aspects of the game such as this, need a really compeling reason to change.

 

[DavidSauls]

I only have one question about this topic-

"Why are we even talking about this?"

This seems like just another pointless topic for DGCR to ramble on about for no apparent reason.

It's a theoretical discussion.

For those who fear this rule change, don't sweat it. It's not a curent proposal.

For those who don't engage in theoretical discussions, ignore us.

 

[New013]

Let's move on to a rule change much more likely, the one where you can't advance past your lie on a throw from anywhere. Wouldn't that rule in effect limit runups to a degree? I know when I take a big runup my momentum takes me past my lie.

 

[Smigles]

Let's move on to a rule change much more likely, the one where you can't advance past your lie on a throw from anywhere. Wouldn't that rule in effect limit runups to a degree? I know when I take a big runup my momentum takes me past my lie.

We dont want to eliminate runups. Why would we ?

 

[Halcón]

If you couldn't move past your lie at all, that would greatly affect putting outside the circle. There shouldn't be a problem with forward momentum as long as a support point was on the lie at release.

 

[New013]

I don't want to either, but a rule change not allowing you to follow through past your lie is way more probable than the one we were discussing. If that happened that would limit runups... that's all I'm saying.

 

[optidiscic]

I would venture to guess that those who are complaining about stand and deliver negatively affecting ams and lower rated.
I laughed
because the biggest cheaters are lower rated players who cheat on run ups and no one in their division calls it. Thus they get an unfair advantage over open players where players are more disciplined due to foot faults being called.
Asking players to enforce the rules is not the answer
as a joke solution I propose that rec and intermediate players must stand and deliver due to their propensity to cheat and only higher divisions of adv and open can be trusted to use a run up as only in those divisions is it called.

 

[New013]

and to opti's argument i counter....


charlie coleman

 

[The Hammer]

and to opti's argument i counter....


charlie coleman

Cheater Cheaterson McNastypants.

 

[nolangherity]

i straddle putt off the tee so this is no problem for meee

 

[ejvogie]

and to opti's argument i counter....


charlie coleman

Thought he was a pencil-whipper.


But yeah, I get where you're coming from.

 

[MrFixIt]

i straddle putt off the tee so this is no problem for meee

I actually laughed out loud.
:thmbup:

 

[ohtobediscing]

After skimming only the 1st and last few pages of this drivel, I am compelled to ask:

Does this have something to do with the Nikko/Guthrie foot-fault bs?
And really, saying that eliminating fairway runups will help prevent injuries is just so much more bs. Are you going to eliminate tee-off runups too?
[A common casual-round exchange, if this rule is passed:]
Disc nerd: "Say, you can't run-up to make a throw!"
Me: "Boy, STFU and quit playing pocket disc golf in public!"

Lets face it---no one's going to quit playing disc golf if this rule is passed. However, participation in tourneys may drop a lot, esp. in the novice/am/int levels. Maybe the elitists would be happy about that, but would the wallets of the TDs agree?

 

[mubhcaeb78]

Ok, we have disc markers right? What about foot markers? Have to be in the circle.. a disc sized hoop that makes it easy to identify foot faults!

 

[Thumber]

Ok, we have disc markers right? What about foot markers? Have to be in the circle.. a disc sized hoop that makes it easy to identify foot faults!

Oh FFS

More crap to solve a non-issue

 

[Dave242]

Ok, we have disc markers right? What about foot markers? Have to be in the circle.. a disc sized hoop that makes it easy to identify foot faults!

If you place this over the disc centered on the disc (and then pick up your disc), you get rid of the whole "Line of Play" issue.

But, what happens when you are not able to lay this marker down due to an obstruction being present?

 

[mubhcaeb78]

Oh FFS

More crap to solve a non-issue

Like I said before, I haven't been interested in watching for or calling foot faults unless the person is clearly trying to avoid obstacles and more than a yard away from where they should be.. I wouldn't use one, and wouldn't want play to slow down to use one..

BUT, it is clear some people are.. /shrug, if you are playing for 100k you may feel differently.

But, what happens when you are not able to lay this marker down due to an obstruction being present?

I could only think of using spray paint around the disc..

Which if we are talking a real pro match here.. caddies responsibility could be cover the disc with a paper, spray paint down, remove disc, and there you have your perfectly marked lie.