The Inevitable 2017 Pros Switching Sponsors Thread

[wims]

Yeah, I didn't mean that she's not a big thing, when I said novelty I really meant the freshness or newness of having her on their team

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Yeah, I didn't mean that she's not a big thing, when I said novelty I really meant the freshness or newness of having her on their team

I think DD and Paige will have a symbiotic relationship in that I would assume DD will do whatever she requires of them. And Dynamic will be happy to oblige and have her on the team for the foreseeable future.

I'm most excited about this move over most this year. I think it was a win win for DD and PP, but a big loss for prodigy.

Although I'm also interested in this shakeup with Val this year and rooting for her, it'd be epic if she had an outstanding year. I'm all for it!

This may be the year for some great women's disc golf stories?!

 

[Finny]

So the fact that at a time when women's sports were receiving little to no support at all, that Innova and Discraft supported women, and women's events, occurred only because no one else was doing it? I don't understand your logic flow.

BTW - on the top two teams for Innova vs the top two teams for DD, the ratio of men to women is, let me see, do do do, that would be 2 to 1 (12 to 6) for Innova and 7 to 1 for DD. And the one is? Oh yeah, PP.

The argument that is being made about Innova is that they are essentially sexist.

So, as I understand it, Innova took on almost a twenty year path to mistreat women. They decided that they were going to compensate women differently, and unfairly from men, and they stuck to that through thick and thin. They were so committed to their sexism and mistreatment of women that, not only did they bring lots of them onto their team - nothing like proximity so you can exercise your bias - when their top female pro came to them, negotiated hard, told them she was going to leave if they didn't modify their stance, that they stuck to their guns. I mean that takes some serious chutzpah. Talk about your commitment. It's almost like they looked at the numbers and decided that the support that player wanted wasn't merited by the money being discussed and decided that they'd stick with their... sexism.

The argument is, ludicrous. At least I hope someone out there thinks it is.

Ive written this before, but... it isn't a matter of a player's name decreasing sales, it's a matter of it increasing sales. If I give said player $1 per every disc with "her" name on it, that I sell, how many extra discs do I have to sell to cover the additional cost, and make more money? Sixth grade math, who knew it was relevant! Because the goal in sponsoring players is to add to your brand and make more money.

No manufacturer has an obligation to support the women's sport. They have a legally punishible obligation to not discriminate. Yet many are beating all around the edge suggesting that Innova has, when there is zero evidence of that, and lots of evidence that they've supported women, most likely at a cost.

You are making the point that the women's game needs to be supported, and that will generate capital. Great, stand by your position. I'd love to see the PDGA take on the issue to flesh it out.

If you are gonna argue that the sport should be doing more, then you need to step up and do that through the PDGA. If you are morally committed to the concept, then shouldn't you be willing to pay for it's testing? Shouldn't you be arguing to the PDGA that they need to move in this direction with a separate women's tour and additional support?

It isn't the job of a for profit company to do that. It's why there are some things best left to capitalism, and some things that should be handled in a different way. As a note, at some level we've done this. Coverage and support of the women's game has been driven by the PDGA. It's part of the reason why the women's game carries the financial weight it does.

I agree that Innova and Discraft have done good things for women's pro disc golf. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I don't think it would have taken much money to make Val feel supported by Innova. And I believe that this small sum would have been worth it. I agree that there probably would not have been any short-term financial gain for Innova. But there could have been either a) long-term financial gain, b) PR gain, or both.

It's a business, and they have to turn a profit. I don't think Innova was obligated to do anything. I don't think Innova will really suffer financially. But I bet the owners of Innova, like at all companies, want to project something more than just an image of ruthless capitalism. Val's departure hurts that effort. To some people, it makes them look cold-blooded and greedy. And it reminds people of past tales of cold-bloodedness towards top male pros. In the small world of pro disc golf in 2016, it has turned some people off. Some people don't care. But no one's saying it was a good thing that Val left and said she hadn't been supported.

I'm a PDGA member, and I do hope they are doing their part for women in the game.

 

[lyleoross]

I agree that Innova and Discraft have done good things for women's pro disc golf. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I don't think it would have taken much money to make Val feel supported by Innova. And I believe that this small sum would have been worth it. I agree that there probably would not have been any short-term financial gain for Innova. But there could have been either a) long-term financial gain, b) PR gain, or both.

It's a business, and they have to turn a profit. I don't think Innova was obligated to do anything. I don't think Innova will really suffer financially. But I bet the owners of Innova, like at all companies, want to project something more than just an image of ruthless capitalism. Val's departure hurts that effort. To some people, it makes them look cold-blooded and greedy. And it reminds people of past tales of cold-bloodedness towards top male pros. In the small world of pro disc golf in 2016, it has turned some people off. Some people don't care. But no one's saying it was a good thing that Val left and said she hadn't been supported.

I'm a PDGA member, and I do hope they are doing their part for women in the game.

But this is a case where we know. They did do things for her including a disc, the Starfire. It wasn't enough by her own admission. So your point is moot. What Val wanted was a compensation package that matched what male team members were getting. Her argument was, that support will grow the women's game because a signature disc will spread the word. There is a lot of evidence that isn't true, within and outside of the sport.

Innova has done anything but display ruthless capitalism. As pointed by numerous posters, and Paul McBeth, and the numbers, they've supported many things, including the women's game. As a guess, I suggested that to me, some of those things look like loss leaders.

Val is negotiating and leveraging. I think it's a smart move, given her stature within the sport. It's also ruthless capitalism, just from the individual's side. Everything we've seen suggests the numbers don't support what Val has asked for, and she's playing hardball, leveraging her name and reputation.

Take a look at Women's US soccer. They get less pay and support than men's US soccer. They are #1 in the world, brilliant to watch, and the men's team is average. The men's team has ten times the audience share. I may not like that, but it's a reflection of our society that I won't fool myself about. On the other hand, in a capitalist move, the women from the team have used their stature to push for more pay, using public opinion to back their request. Similar to what Val is doing.

This is the essence of capitalism, and honestly, when it works best. I have many problems with capitalism, but I won't ignore the facts or those times when it works well.

The only reason that Innova looks cold hearted and greedy here is because many online posters in a kind-hearted attempt to support Val, are misrepresenting what they've done, here and in the past. Even Val hasn't done that.

 

[joecoin]

Yeah, I didn't mean that she's not a big thing, when I said novelty I really meant the freshness or newness of having her on their team

Perhaps the word you wanted to use was "anomaly"?

Or perhaps not.

 

[joecoin]

Sponsors have marketing departments, that's why anyone knows about or buys anything from that company.

Oh not everybody. When I started playing, I went to the store looking for some golf discs and was crushed to find no Whammo brand discs, as that was all I ever knew back in the stone age, before disc golf existed. So I just bought some discs that were available knowing absolutely nothing about how they flew. Selections available to me that day were Innova and Discraft. I bought some of each. They were mighty weird things.

 

[Finny]

Innova does do things that probably don't make money in an effort to grow the sport. Agree. I'm not giving them enough credit for that.

As for Val, I think we're at the agree-to-disagree point. I think it would have been worth it to do a bit more. You don't. I think both of our particular positions are defensible, I just like mine more.

I don't think I am misrepresenting what Innova's doing. And I don't think we actually KNOW much. No sales figures, revenue amounts, contract terms, or specific demands. I'd LOVE to have those curtains pulled back.

 

[agentdozzer]

Any word from Will on his announcement?

 

[agentdozzer]

Im thinking Prodigy was a set up to fail from get go operation, the top pros created it to leverage better deals from Innova and Discraft. Now that they have there gonna close up shop. Will, Cat and Uli are now free agents.

 

[JC17393]

Im thinking Prodigy was a set up to fail from get go operation, the top pros created it to leverage better deals from Innova and Discraft. Now that they have there gonna close up shop. Will, Cat and Uli are now free agents.

So is the rest of their team in on this caper too, or are they just collateral damage in those dastardly top pros' quest to squeeze an extra 20-30 discs a year out of the other companies?

 

[agentdozzer]

In the end the lower end guys will benifit as well, but they were probally not in on the plot to create a phony company to drive up there value.

 

[Halcón]

Any word from Will on his announcement?

This.

 

[agentdozzer]

Brillant move by the prodigy creators, they made disc golf sponsorships great again.

 

[Hampstead]

Will is a Prodigy lifer. I'd be really surprised if he left.

 

[JC17393]

In the end the lower end guys will benifit as well, but they were probally not in on the plot to create a phony company to drive up there value.

I was referring to the Prodigy team members that would be left out in the cold if the operation suddenly shut down. I can't imagine their street or protege team members, or even a fair number of their regular team members, are at a level where they're going to get snapped up by another company. Especially when most companies have filled their quota of local and regional players. They might scrounge up the support to immediately grab a Ulibarri or Allen or Schusterick, but I don't think they're all that interested in stretching themselves for a few more 990ish local players.

As much as people around here like to fantasize about Prodigy disappearing, they're not going anywhere for a while.

 

[snappyj]

Brillant move by the prodigy creators, they made disc golf sponsorships great again.

Are we all just assuming Prodigy going out of business is a foregone conclusion now? I'm on board, if that's the case.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Any word from Will on his announcement?

I think he's getting married.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Will S. just posted on Facebook "The last four years have been great. Today I am making a big change. Stay tuned! ��"

Leaving Prodigy?

I don't see the post? Maybe he took it down? Or I'm just missing it.

 

[Consult20]

Maybe he's talking about the inauguration.


I mean seriously, I can't imagine Will throwing Prodigy










under the bus.

 

[Halcón]

I think he's getting married.

I lol'ed