[Innova] The mythical Innova ROC

[itlnstln]

I have only had 1 KC and 3 DX, but my KC developed turn before most of the fade beat out while the DX all lost fade first and then the got the slow drift to the right. It is a small sample size (I do not wear out discs quickly at all), but I prefer the DX flight and plastic feel enough that I never have bothered to check out more KC's. The KC also was a 165, while 175-180 for the different DX.

I also believe where the wearing occurs can impact the flight patterns, though I have not tried testing the theory to find out if true (wear on bead vs wear on the parting line).

+1 to this. While I haven't thrown Rocs in quite a while, my experience is the same. Also, per my anecdotal experience, DX wears more evenly, especially if you're in a rocky area like, say, Central Texas or Arizona. My KC Pro Rocs had a tendency to get big chunks taken out of them when hitting rocks or trees vs. just scuffs and nicks. More preferentially, I found the DX plastic easier to grip than KC Pro which felt a little more slick to me

 

[Itsnotflipyurjustbad]

I have only had 1 KC and 3 DX, but my KC developed turn before most of the fade beat out while the DX all lost fade first and then the got the slow drift to the right. It is a small sample size (I do not wear out discs quickly at all), but I prefer the DX flight and plastic feel enough that I never have bothered to check out more KC's. The KC also was a 165, while 175-180 for the different DX.

I also believe where the wearing occurs can impact the flight patterns, though I have not tried testing the theory to find out if true (wear on bead vs wear on the parting line).

I think it is safe to say your KC being 165 explains your experience. Any Roc, once you drop under ~170, does not maintain their Roc qualities. Every KC I've ever bagged does the Roc thing: loses the fade and is a laser beam for a long time, then the turn starts creeping in.

I've thrown many, many, Rocs--DX and KC--and from my experience the only noticeable difference in the two plastics is 1)feel/grip and 2)wear rate. DX will always be grippier, though beat up KC feels fantastic. And obviously KC takes exponentially longer to season.

 

[kevdiv48]

There is truth to KC's having more of a plus rim compared to DX's. It is also is possible that the more rigid plastic makes it stand out more.
I have never clicked or held onto a KC long enough to see the stability change from fresh to thrashed. With DX, however, I have done it multiple times and it is wonderful. A few years back I switched to an all DX Roc lineup, minus a lone Z Wasp. I have a big enough stash I don't feel like I run through fresh Rocs too quickly. I will nab another freshie from time to time, doesn't hurt since they're only $9 a pop.

short answer is DX Rocs can get you the beat in flight faster. and nothing is more beautiful than lacing a super beat DX Rancho that turns so late you thought it was thrown on hyzer from the opposite hand.

 

[davidsjessop]

I've cycled both KC and DX, been thru a handful a year for 10-plus years. For context, I throw Rocs when I need 200-260ft with a tight line. I've found that both plastics beat to that no fade flight but DX takes much less time to do so. I'm mostly cycling DX at this point because I enjoy the quick cycling. As for a plus rim, I haven't noticed that so I'll have to check it out.

Welcome to the Roc.

 

[bsammons]

Appreciate all who responded!

As an update: I ended up finding a couple of KC pros with a matching wing (non-rounded) to my DX's. Both 180g max weight, complete twins, same color of a light turquoise. Both started out at a sturdy 4/5/0/2, absolutely zero turn and a stern sweeping push left at the end. After thrashing one for a week (forehand rollers when walking the dog, nailing trees, tomahawks to the next tee pad on every hole, putting practice) I got it to what I'd consider a "2.5 roc". 4/5/0/.5 would be my numbers for it, but when you really crank on it with a slight anhyzer it holds it all the way to the ground.

Couple notes: it did wear in exactly like my DX roc did flight wise, but not as quickly. Laser beam straight, doesn't want to turn, just helicopters down without much of any change to the roll angle as it loses speed. Holds hyzers, holds anhyzers. I throw my distance drivers non-internet golf line 450 and gave this one all I could and it just didn't turn and didn't fade, held the angle its whole flight.

The dome actually slightly lowered during the process; both started out with an identical large dome (if you look up KC Rocs on OTB's site and look at the ones with a "5" for dome, that's what they are) but the one that's beaten in has lost 10-15% of its total dome height. Still domey, but interesting that it happened. I looked at my DX that's also beaten in and the same thing happened to it.

The plastic gets to the really tasty "worked in KC" feeling with more FH rollers/flight plate slides on grass and a few leave-in-the-hot-car heat cycles within a week.

 

[GripEnemy]

Found a Star Rock (Rancho) last round, threw it a good bit today. Flat with shoulder.

Fun mold to finally throw again. Last time I touched a Rock it was 10 years ago and DX. Willing to turn but consistent fade. It's no Buzzz but I'll keep it.

 

[felix-j]

It's been a few days now. Has anyone thrown the Kevin Jones Halo Champ Roc yet? Halo beef or is it mellow like the Halo Roc3?

 

[jupiterboy]

mellow like the Halo Roc3?

A nice surprise to me.

 

[geebob]

I've been cheating on my Rocs with a RocX3. Kind of like stepping out with a girlfriend's cousin who plays rugby.

 

[jupiterboy]

I've been cheating on my Rocs with a RocX3. Kind of like stepping out with a girlfriend's cousin who plays rugby.

I have two (heavy star and lighter glo champ) in the bag and love them, plus a light halo 3 and a 180 KC Pro. That's the mids.

 

[@CD-]

It's been a few days now. Has anyone thrown the Kevin Jones Halo Champ Roc yet? Halo beef or is it mellow like the Halo Roc3?

I got out to throw the Blue rim Halo Champ KJ Roc this evening, pretty stable but still has a bit of glide over a Gator. Didn't have the greatest throws with it during the round but it did hold true to 4/4/0/3 numbers in the low wind conditions. Maybe a half tick of flip up and a decent slow, glidey fade at the end for the throws in the field with a bit of power behind them. Got it stuck in a tree and it shows some scuffs from that but nothing atypical for Premium plastic. Mild dome with a standard Champion blend in the middle and a stiff Star blend for the outer rim. Bottom tooling is not Rancho, just a Made in USA and www.innovadiscs.com

I'll get out and test against a USDGC thrower Champ/Star Rocs, Luster & Blomroos TS Roc3s, and a couple Quantum Taurus sometime in the future.

Look forward to seeing Kevin Jones throw these around and work towards a good pairing with some other Rocs.

 

[felix-j]

I got out to throw the Blue rim Halo Champ KJ Roc this evening, pretty stable but still has a bit of glide over a Gator. Didn't have the greatest throws with it during the round but it did hold true to 4/4/0/3 numbers in the low wind conditions.

Nice, sounds very promising! Thanks for the quick review.

 

[jupiterboy]

Got a repeat park on a severe downhill hole with that 180 KC pro. It's like 40-50 ft drop with tight trees on the right, but that heavy-ass Roc just glides along the edge of the leaves and drops like a rock by the basket. Nice clean birdie. F yes.

 

[DumfriesLizzie]

Both of my Rocs are well worn. A DX Roc3 and a KC. Latter still fades predictably and is my go-to mini driver. Former mostly used like an overstable putter. It's a superb model.

 

[Sewer bill]

Can I get a rundown on roc types? I used to throw kc rocs but that was a long time ago. Whats a rancho roc and does it fly differently?

I may have stayed up too late and in my late night wisdom bought 6 kj halo champion rocs.

 

[jupiterboy]

Star Ranchos don't do it for me. Kinda domey, kinda understable with dumpy finish. Maybe that's a DX mold, IDK.

The F2 Halo Roc3s fly kinda like a DX Roc3—flat tops. I have one in 167g or so. Very thin flight plate. Punishes oat, but flies much like my crystal flex buzz. This is my go-to.

If they still have the glo champ RocX3s, they are really nice. Surprisingly neutral out of the box with good glide, dumpy finish that cuts a little distance. Full weight Star X3 has been in the bag a while. Gets up to flat and glides. Good wind resistance. Most OS disc in my bag.

KC Pro is my flippy mid. Nice turnover line, but still fades back. Max weight is good.

 

[biscoe]

Can I get a rundown on roc types? I used to throw kc rocs but that was a long time ago. Whats a rancho roc and does it fly differently?

I may have stayed up too late and in my late night wisdom bought 6 kj halo champion rocs.

Rancho rocs have been the standard roc since some time in the late 90's- rancho is a reference to the mold being tooled Rancho Cucamonga which is where Innova was located at the time. Prior to that there were first San Marino and then Ontario rocs, also referencing cities in CA. Both of those were not as overstable as the ranchos. KC Rocs are the rancho mold.

 

[the1discChallenge]

Rancho rocs have been the standard roc since some time in the late 90's- rancho is a reference to the mold being tooled Rancho Cucamonga which is where Innova was located at the time. Prior to that there were first San Marino and then Ontario rocs, also referencing cities in CA. Both of those were not as overstable as the ranchos. KC Rocs are the rancho mold.

I've got a 20 year star Roc that's a San Marino and it flies more or less like a fresh DX. Overstable, but not aggressive. I think a lot of folks prefer Rancho due to their overstability, but a premium Sanny will hold a really nice overstability for a long time.

 

[@CD-]

I got out to throw the Blue rim Halo Champ KJ Roc this evening, pretty stable but still has a bit of glide over a Gator. Didn't have the greatest throws with it during the round but it did hold true to 4/4/0/3 numbers in the low wind conditions. Maybe a half tick of flip up and a decent slow, glidey fade at the end for the throws in the field with a bit of power behind them. Got it stuck in a tree and it shows some scuffs from that but nothing atypical for Premium plastic. Mild dome with a standard Champion blend in the middle and a stiff Star blend for the outer rim. Bottom tooling is not Rancho, just a Made in USA and www.innovadiscs.com

I'll get out and test against a USDGC thrower Champ/Star Rocs, Luster & Blomroos TS Roc3s, and a couple Quantum Taurus sometime in the future.

Look forward to seeing Kevin Jones throw these around and work towards a good pairing with some other Rocs.

Nice, sounds very promising! Thanks for the quick review.

After comparison and a number of throws today, early high speed stability is lower and will hold an anhyzer for a bit before unwinding into a solid fade. Probably a tick more low speed stable than the Blomroos 2020 Luster MF Roc3 (pre-Moondust?). Those have a bit of dome but pretty similar overall. Q Taurus and Champ USDGC thrower Roc both have a bit more HSS and LSS but not a significant amount. Pretty standard premium Roc thrower flight I think - the 3 fade shows best when you throw it cleanly and give it enough air to fully fade. I tried to compare mostly with a half speed abbreviated walk up pace and flat to anhyzer higher release.

Pick one up if you like Halo Champ and/or wish to support Kevin Jones. Hopeful that some different flight plate colors might come out in the future (white/blue combinations would be my preference instead of orange center).

 

[Sewer bill]

My 6 kj rocs arrived. Purple rim is terrible, orange flight plate is murky like dead leaf orange. White rims are good looking actually orange flight plates.

Domey, razor sharp edges from the deburring machine, all 6 need touch up before throwing. If the flashing is that bad for the rancho mold they should just sell them uncut and let me deburr it myself.

Haven't thrown them yet.