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The Newest Crush Boy is an ANIMAL.

ILUVSMGS18 said:
Rocs were my first do it all mid, but I'm slowly replacing them with Wasps and Comets, but it's so hard tp find beat up Wasps or non Z Wasps for a good price. I'm not getting rid of them, mostly so I have backups, or in my current case for winter DX Rocs so I don't lose my Comets.
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You're on the right track.


I've got a beat to death Glo Wasp that I hope I never lose.
 
DoWork said:
Any athleticism is transferable, it's the individual that applies them and their aptitude that makes the difference. Askren is a beast, but clearly you don't need that in order to be a good player.

I think we can all agree that raw athleticism isn't hurting anyone on the disc golf course though.
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I don't agree. Different sports are more conducive to certain types of athleticism. Athleticism regardless is always a plus but certain kinds will translate better than others. Askren is very fit and has head to toe functional strength aplenty but he's probably not the greatest fast-twitch, run & jump, kind of athlete. He's not known for having knockout power at all or a good standup game because his hand speed is lacking compared to gifted strikers. And that's not taking any of his biometrics into the equation either. I don't know how Askren measures out but usually wrestlers are a stockier build. Your frame plays a big role in how easily this game comes to you too. That's a lot why lankier guys like Eagle and Simon look a lot more effortless.
ChrisWoj said:
You're not referring to translating athleticism - you're talking about translating discrete skills. Those are two very different things. You're right that his particular skills from wrestling would not translate as cleanly to disc golf, though I'd argue that anything leveraging leg strength to generate power through the upper body would translate well. Beyond that - the general hand-eye coordination and practice habits developed through elite athletic competition would also translate VERY well between elite level wrestling and disc golf. Outside of that - we're referring to his clearly top-level athleticism which translates just as well as anyone.

As for Avery - we're talking about a World Champ with a number of Major victories. So his fitness has translated well. But what elite athletic background does he have outside of disc? You're comparing someone who is a big big man and extraordinarily fit to someone with elite athlete explosion. Avery clearly has high level explosion, as evidenced by his US distance championships and elite on-course distance... but there's no evidence that he's an elite athlete in terms of explosive power like a guy like Ben Askren. I don't recall his having any significant high school or collegiate level athletic career outside of this sport (which I don't think he took seriously until he got to his 20s or very late teens). He's a supremely fit and incredibly strong individual, but there's a difference between that and elite explosion.
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I've covered most of this in the above post but again we shouldn't paint athleticism with a broad stroke. Askren's athleticism would help him in terms of being able to muscle throws as far as a lot of people's decent form but that's more of a mask than really helping. I don't believe Askren's coordination is naturally good enough or translatable in terms of getting his leg strength via MMA/wrestling into his throw because if he were then he'd be a better striker. I've only seen a few vids of Askren discing from a few years ago but if I recall he was almost an overhand dominant player which speaks to him muscling the disc more than ripping a sweet backhand or forehand with natural coordination.

Avery is basically what Askren could be if Askren dedicated himself to disc golf (Avery might be a bit more fast-twitchier though). But that's not the perfect culmination of the ideal disc golf frame with the ideal disc golf translatable athleticism IMO. We haven't seen that guy. Basically Bruce Lee with Anthony Barela's frame or something similar.
Jay Dub said:
Steve Wisecup is who you should compare. The guy was a physical trainer and looked like one. The most athletic disc golfer ever. Pure muscle.

steve-wisecup-gsc-07-drive-2.jpg
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Wow, that guy is jacked. Hope he didn't skip leg day. But again the really bulky, muscular type is helpful to an extent but I don't think that's anywhere close to ideal DG athlete.
 
Jay Dub said:
He won the Worlds in 1989. The last person to win before Climo started his streak.
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Up till Climo lost to Ron Russel in 1999 or Ken Climo was not able to play then won again 3 more times in 2000, 2003, and 2006 in Open Pro before winning in Pro Masters 2012, 2014, and 2015 before basically stopping playing even at a casual level. Well Climo had won ever since 1993 season to 1998 when they were playing Huntsvile AL, only City in Open M&F that has bin used twice.

Only person as consistent to winning worlds was Peter Shive in the now Maters 60+ division from 2000-2008.
 
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Jimb said:
How about someone like this?
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Nadal could probably throw a thumber over 400ft without much practice... Dude is jacked and a great athlete, plus the serve in tennis is probably the next best thing for OH shot shoulder strength after pitching.
 
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brutalbrutus said:
Nadal could probably throw a thumber over 400ft without much practice... Dude is jacked and a great athlete, plus the serve in tennis is probably the next best thing for OH shot shoulder strength after pitching.
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The back hand in tennis and racquetball is also great strength training for disc golf back hand. If you can rip a topspin backhand down the line, I have no doubt you can also crush a hyzer or hyzer flip back hand.
 
Not uncommon for top tennis players to have larger arms on their forehand side.

Also, I haven't followed tennis for several years, but I believe Nadal is naturally right-handed, even though he plays lefty.

And on the actual topic, I almost didn't watch that CCDG vid just because I saw how young that kid looked and assumed it would be horrible. Boy, was I wrong. Kid really does crush. I'm impressed. Also, I wonder what his natural handedness is...
 
I'm not really sure tbh but I think he is naturally ambidextrous. Iirc, he was mainly throwing FHs and flick rollers when I first saw him play but I don't remember which hand they were with. I know he was working on a righty BH a couple years ago but don't know if he still is.
 
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brutalbrutus said:
BTW... is that an optical illusion, or is his left arm really that much bigger than the right?
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The legendary David Foster Wallace used to almost fetishize this. He mentioned it in fiction, in non-fiction... here's from one of his great pieces "The String Theory":

"There are very few paying customers on the grounds on Saturday, but there are close to a hundred world-class players: big spidery French guys with gelled hair, American kids with peeling noses and Pac-10 sweats, lugubrious Germans, bored-looking Italians. There are blank-eyed Swedes and pockmarked Colombians and cyberpunkish Brits. Malevolent Slavs with scary haircuts. Mexican players who spend their spare time playing two-on-two soccer in the gravel outside the players' tent. With few exceptions, all the players have similar builds–big muscular legs, shallow chests, skinny necks, and one normal-size arm and one monstrously huge and hypertrophic arm."
 
ChrisWoj said:
As for Avery - we're talking about a World Champ with a number of Major victories. So his fitness has translated well. But what elite athletic background does he have outside of disc? You're comparing someone who is a big big man and extraordinarily fit to someone with elite athlete explosion. Avery clearly has high level explosion, as evidenced by his US distance championships and elite on-course distance... but there's no evidence that he's an elite athlete in terms of explosive power like a guy like Ben Askren. I don't recall his having any significant high school or collegiate level athletic career outside of this sport (which I don't think he took seriously until he got to his 20s or very late teens). He's a supremely fit and incredibly strong individual, but there's a difference between that and elite explosion.
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Avery has huge forearms and calves but I've always been confused why people think he is at an elite fitness level. Dude looks like he has a tire around his waist.

As for Askren, I believe his mental approach and competitiveness he draws from his historic wrestling career would propel him further than his actual physical prowess. If you look at the guy he's not an impressive physical specimen and I believe his intangibles are what set him apart.
 
Dire Wolfy said:
He can probably throw farther than you.
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Probably? No, he definitely can, but I didn't dedicate my life to disc golf. I can throw 400 foot hyzers though, fine enough for the level I compete at.

We are talking about fitness level however though. He can 100% bench more than I can, but can he run faster or jump higher? Is he more flexible and nimble? I'm guessing not.
 
BuiltTooLong said:
Avery has huge forearms and calves but I've always been confused why people think he is at an elite fitness level. Dude looks like he has a tire around his waist.

As for Askren, I believe his mental approach and competitiveness he draws from his historic wrestling career would propel him further than his actual physical prowess. If you look at the guy he's not an impressive physical specimen and I believe his intangibles are what set him apart.
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I mean, in terms of cardiovascular fitness - he (Avery) may be lacking? I'm not sure what he does nowadays. I do know that at one point he was pushing 6+ mile runs about a decade ago, he was asking me for some tips on running back when the big thing was DiscGolfersr.Us - but unfortunately he fairly quickly developed shin splints, I'm guessing as a result of the pounding from all that mass. But overall, all around fitness, he was at a pretty damn high level for a long time. He may be getting a gut now (I haven't seen a picture or video of him aside from head shots in promotional stuff in a long time) but dude's getting up there near Masters age. Happens to a lot of folk. But there's no doubt that he works to stay fit.
 
Perhaps I came across as too crass on Avery. I appreciate how he has changed the narrative in Disc Golf history to show that athleticism is important to success. I just never really considered him to be the physical fitness specimen he is widely recognized as.
 
BuiltTooLong said:
Perhaps I came across as too crass on Avery. I appreciate how he has changed the narrative in Disc Golf history to show that athleticism is important to success. I just never really considered him to be the physical fitness specimen he is widely recognized as.
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He is a specimen - he's like 6'3" and 250. He's not in peak physical shape compared to a lot of other sports, but we're talking about one of the first pros in disc golf (at least during my time, Wisecup looks pretty amazing) that really made it a point to try and physically improve themselves with workouts, and then he ended up winning worlds. And that was only 10 years ago or so...a lot of people who play disc golf don't work out at all or are in really poor shape themselves, so he might look like he's in really good condition.
 
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