The SW22 Swim Move

[HyzerUniBomber]

Our boy SW22 dropped a little nugget on somebody about the off arm (paraphrasing): off arm comes in with the heel plant and then makes a swimming paddle motion during swing.



I've brought the off arm in before, but it was just to keep it tighter to the body (and then I still often forget and let it get wide)... but when he said "swimming stroke" or whatever it clicked differently for me physically. Instead of just leaving my off arm relatively limp or whatever, it comes across.

I think that motion of bringing the off arm forward made me also load a bit more directly forward and then there's also a bunch more leverage available.

I had a one tremendous shot yesterday that was unmeasured but it was very likely the longest I've thrown by a substantial margin.

Potential issues that I would see with it - and was addressing via video review:

1. I wasn't getting my shoulders squared up in the backswing because I was telegraphing the arm move forward. Fix: duh, square the shoulders up! Relatively easy fix once I caught it.

2. My backswing got tighter and came off the swing plane. Fix: loose backswing, loooooose and low so that as the disc came forward it stayed flat. This one is a bit harder to fix, because you will be tightening up the swimming arm, and need to keep everything else loose and timed right.

The only other way I can describe it is that the off arm is going to reach forward and in order to get a swim stroke, you have drive the weight properly off the back foot to be able to swim. It could be that the byproduct of trying to do this move is that I'm improving my weight transfer direction?

Lastly, my accuracy went off a bit - but there was no doubt that leverage is something real.

Just something to mess with.

 

[esc1]

I've been focusing on this for a few weeks myself, as if became pretty evident from watching the Beast in slow motion that bringing the off arm in is very important part of the throw. The more I can compact the shoulders allows for much better explosion and it also helps me get the throwing elbow extended more comfortably. I was able to reach an uphill hole I'm always 30 feet short on by working on this. Tucking the off arm bicep under the disc in the pull through is a weird feeling at first.. but its a necessary change. I think doing this kinda helps keep the head in line with the plant foot more instead of looking down more, relying on the off arm to bring the head up.. certainly makes for an smoother follow through.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I noticed this off arm motion on the famous four drives video. I always thought it looked more like the classic "disco move" where the guy points at the ground them at the sky, though in DG you'd only point at the ground. I don't use it consistently, but it seems like a good way to both bring the arm in and load the shoulders for cleaner, more powerful totation.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59735&stc=1&d=1475260859

 

[Didn'tSeeThatTree]

Is this the part you are talking about? Where the left arm swings in as the right heel is coming down? I never noticed that before. Definitely going to play around with the "off" arm next time I'm in the field.

Thanks for sharing! Hope you don't mind the GIF...I kept trying to loop that part in the YouTube video.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is this the part you are talking about? Where the left arm swings in as the right heel is coming down? I never noticed that before. Definitely going to play around with the "off" arm next time I'm in the field.

Yep, it's shifting the weight forward into the brace providing leverage to swim against.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

That gif is tremendous and SW22 sums up succinctly I have been too late with this and thinking about it wrong.
He brings it is so early and it is part of forward weight transfer.

Thanks for the ah hah

 

[RomServo]

Thank you for highlighting this. Ive noticed that before and hadnt seen anyone bring it up. Ive been having placement issues with my back arm lately and think this is my missing link. Excellent .gif btw!

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I almost drowned trying this ****.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I tried to screen cap the swim move here... but imgur has stopped working for me. Once I noticed it, I see it much more clearly now in a number of big arm throwers. BTW, somebody needs to step in and discuss that pony tail.

 

[slowplastic]

BTW, somebody needs to step in and discuss that pony tail.

Counterweight for leverage, and it stays in close for faster rotation like a figure skater.

 

[Krinkncrank]

It's seems almost like the non-throwing hand swings in and pumps down so as to emphasize loading of the plant foot.

McBeth seems to pivot more on the ball of his foot than his heel- something I've observed in other slow motion vids of his backhand drives.

 

[TAFL]

Counterweight for leverage, and it stays in close for faster rotation like a figure skater.

It's a bobtail, which is a perfect counterweight. A full tail just whips around and makes a mess of everything.

 

[John Q. Public]

My (perhaps limited) understanding of the 'left arm load' by McBest we're discussing here
is that it positions the right shoulder correctly over the right (brace) leg.

Feldberg discusses it at the 7:00 mark here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHy227OYGP0

He doesn't necessarily tell us how to get that right shoulder alignment though.
In my opinion, McBeth's left arm load is the way.

Try this: Look straight ahead. Reach your right arm back (RHBH) to full extension on an imaginary disc golf swing and hold it there. Now imitate what Paul does with his left arm and fist. Keep the right arm fully extended and load and unload your left arm/shoulder/fist like Paul.

It will become obvious that this left arm load subtly shifts the right shoulder forward!


Your accuracy will likely increase if you don't already do this. Also, try this left shoulder load
idea on your hyzers! I find it easier to hold the angle and impart great force to the throw.

Good luck! You are all beautiful.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

That gif is tremendous and SW22 sums up succinctly I have been too late with this and thinking about it wrong.
He brings it is so early and it is part of forward weight transfer.

Thanks for the ah hah

So I couldn't figure out why I was so late with this move, I remember posts about it, and seeing different vid clips of top pros and thought I was emulating it. I started trying to copy McBeth and it has been a huge break through. Improving both timing for accuracy and disc speed. A huge improvement on reducing the number of griplock shanks while adding distance.

Then someone posted the 2013 lead card distance drive clip again and I saw WHY I was so late getting that hand down and rear shoulder in.
Feldberg
I had been trying to copy his off arm, and was having really poor results. Now I have a question, anyone able to reason out why his off arm is so different? If you take it as a true swim move and do this in the pool you are totally robbing power from your throw.

 

[Shamis]

I usually forget to do it, but pulling my off arm in tight instantly adds about 40 feet to my drives.

 

[sidewinder22]

Feldberg
I had been trying to copy his off arm, and was having really poor results. Now I have a question, anyone able to reason out why his off arm is so different? If you take it as a true swim move and do this in the pool you are totally robbing power from your throw.

Fundamentally its the same counter move, Feldy uses more of a Swedish lever technique as his body/form is more hyzer.

Linus Astrom is the prototype of Swedish technique at 1:05 next to Avery, all these guys in this video are heavy influences of my technique:

 

[iacas]

McBeth seems to pivot more on the ball of his foot than his heel- something I've observed in other slow motion vids of his backhand drives.

It isn't the topic in this thread, but yeah, I was going to point that out as well.

This off hand stuff is somewhat interesting.

 

[Capnchad]

I've been trying to get the timing and angles down on this move to have it pay off. Usually I end up punching downward and it tilts my shoulders for a high hyzer. I think that's why Paige and GG throw the arm over the top, maybe it keeps them level more easily. Definitely has some power potential though. Same concept as a reverse punch in karate.

 

[sidewinder22]

Updating this thread with new Swedish Badfish video. Like most drills/concepts, it's probably not a fix all, but a piece of the puzzle for many players. IMO getting balanced on the front leg is the most fundamental thing since that is the fulcrum of the swing, and most players never get or maintain dynamic balance on it from start to finish of the swing. Every top thrower maintains perfect dynamic balance to the amount of momentum/speed they bring into the throw from the x-step/hop.

There are couple different ways to execute the trail side move, but they are ALL fundamentally doing the same move with the rear side countering behind the front side in equilibrium(Don't Spill the Beverage!). I can and have thrown doing all these moves that may appear wildly different. I recommend trying them all, not just one, maybe that one won't click for you at first, but another might. If you perform a swing in a pool/water or slow motion you should understand how this leverages the swing extension forward.

The trail side should counterweight (like trebuchet weight) the arm/disc release in equal and opposite to maintain leverage into full extension/release. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s

The hands separate from each other in equal and opposite just like a pitcher, this helps maintain your posture and balance and leverage the arm swing. This is different than a golf or baseball swing that uses both hand/arms in unison where the rear side must be allowed to swing through. However when you separate the hands to a one-handed swing this changes where the swing center comes through inline both shoulders instead of perpendicular to shoulders/chest, so the trail side must counter the swing side. The backhand throw is more similar to pitching or bowling backhand, than batting or golf swing with two-hands, but if you swing the bat or club one-handed it's the same.

Note how they all get to the same upright Swan Dive position, balanced on front leg with chin up, chest out proud posture with both hands extended back away from each other, and then recoil smoothly like a Boss taking a sip in the finish position. The rear hand appears to push/swim the rest of the body/arm/disc through forward.

Note how Linus takes his rear arm in a complete circle over his head and the circle is perpendicular/90 degrees to the swing direction, so the rear arm is moving more left to right across the tee pad, while the throwing arm is swinging more straight back and forth down the tee pad/trajectory. His rear shoulder goes almost completely vertical over top the front shoulder as a massive pendulum. Linus's move was a game changer for me a long time ago, although my rear arm looks nothing like it now. Drew Gibson did the same overhead move, but now keeps the swim move much quieter like McBeth, I think he did this more for improving his golf drive accuracy with less moving parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOu8ePftkw#t=3m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wstfsTWvGFQ

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Roger Federer with the Swiss Swim Technique:

 

[sidewinder22]

Marc Jarvis actually swims/pushes forward his rear hand off his rear thigh, that's solid leverage from the largest bone in the body(femur), and not leveraging from a fluid like air or water! It really firms up/anchors your whole rear side to leverage the swing, and is much easier on your spine as it prevents it from separating or twisting too much from lag, so you really have to pivot/turn your pelvis/torso/shoulders much further back instead of twisting the spine. So everything pivots/turns back and further more together. You can actually push/turn your rear hip/shoulder away from the target in the backswing so they move targetward from behind you while turning away from it and clears the rear hip/shoulder back out of the way for the front shoulder/arm/disc to swing further back to the top of the backswing(should be same position as Door Frame Drill just before the heel plant/weightshift). And then you can push everything targetward ground up and from the rear hand/thigh with massive leverage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90&t=8m44s

Marc Jarvis is in perfect Dynamic Balance in One Leg Drill so he is braced dynamically upright like a skier through the front hip, knee, and ankle, but he is releasing the torso/arm/disc through the turn with a ton of G-force and his swing momentum pulls him into finish in perfect upright balance: