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The SW22 Swim Move

deyo7 said:
OK cool... so to clarify, as long as I'm doing the forward pump and hop then I'm free wheeling ...

I guess I meant, specifically, in terms of copying/learning the rear arm... are all fine to try out ("not tight/free wheeling")?
Click to expand...
Pretty much. When you hop it gets the rear foot/whole rear side out of the way of the backswing and is effortless glide/swivel of the hips/body into the backswing.
 
Okay I've been having some more success with practice today.

Focusing on this has allowed some of my balance issues back in. I'm leaning back instead of staying upright, and I think that's what is giving me the slight nose up release on some of these.

HOWEVER.

It's looking/feeling a lot better today. Starting to feel more natural rather than in the way of my swing. How is the off arm mechanic looking here?

The drives never feel like they're substantially more powerful, but I was hitting 425-450 with less effort than my throw where my arm is left out of the way and less active. Plus it looks better in slow motion lol.



Sorry about the quality, my camera was in my car pretty far away. This is zoomed in.
 
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Definitely seeing why I'm feeling less in control

-balance issues
-x-step too big
-hugging myself a bit

All things I've recently "solved" in my form, so I'm not too worried about ironing it out after some more practice with this.

But definitely improved from yesterday. This off arm movement is already starting to engrain in muscle memory, so I'm going to tighten everything back up once it's thoroughly engrained.

I will say, the distance is without a doubt better when I do this.
 
Yeah your long x-step isn't helping your balance/leverage, and you are turning back too early before your rear foot lands. Your rear arm isn't swimming, it's too late and going just going down and forward after you plant with the disc instead of countering away. The rear arm needs to be forward as you plant, then swim away.

Note at 9 sec how the rear hand is moving forward as he plants. Then at 10 sec the rear hand starts moving back away to counter the release of the arm swing.
 
I tried incorporating the swim move today with mostly positive results. When I got the timing right, the disc was coming out significantly faster than with my regular throw. I was modeling the swim off of McBeth (no idea how what it actually looked like).

I've also messed around with emulating Linus's off hand move in the past. I also was able to see an immediate improvement in ejection speed with this technique, but I'm not sure I have the coordination to hit the timing consistently.

I think these results suggest that I'm a cronic strong-armer and using the swim gets more of my body involved. I'll definitely keep messing around with this (as time permits) and see where it leads me. I wasn't reaching/swinging/turning back anywhere near as far as I could have. I want to lock in the throw I was using today and then try to add more reach/swing/turn once I've got a bit more muscle memory with the basic movements. I've had short lived breakthroughs in the past because I didn't commit the time to doing a bunch of reps to make the timing stick.
 
My results weren't as positive. Disc was coming out hot but I was over-rotating and aim was subsequently off. I was having a hard time actually swimming/pushing back/countering. Think I'll try Marc Jarvis hand actually on thigh to push against per SW post #20 if recall correctly.
 
^^^
A good example of Federer's rear leg counterbalancing the swing starting at 4:18.
 
We've had warmer weather, enough to play long catch on the street. The thing that happened with all the discussion about the lateral move, is that my off-arm has moved toward a reinforcement of how late the motion feels.

If I want to get the disc to center chest, with the back knee hanging straight down from the hip, back foot having tracked forward, I have to re-arrange my visualization.

This is a strange correlation, but it is nearly perfect: if I am skiing backwards, and I want to throw my skis sideways and come to a hard stop, it's exactly what it feels like to come in hips first, go heel down, and THEN settle enough on the front side.

When I do that move, my off arm doesn't need to do anything (Jarvis hand on thigh). When I load in correctly, the only thing that my off arm is doing is staying behind the brace, and trying to power the shoulder is completely un-necessary.

I literally am feeling the legs mash together now, in a way that makes me realize that my timing was off up until now. It's not just the legs though, it's the posture and shoulder timing. I'm so loose that I regularly think, "there's no power in this shot, I've screwed up."
 
Hey just a quick shout out... Thanks!

I've been trying to use the swim move BH with meh results... I'm a BH player and yeah I feel like I can get something out of it but its messing with my timing but...

I'm a weak FH player and using the swim move for FH has made for instant results. It starts my shoulder rotation and has helped unjam me, I'm easily getting 60-80+ feet more, less pain, better control. My FH form must be awful haha....
 
Sometimes I feel like SW is reading minds. Was thinking offarm just before this new video came out:



Offarm been coming to my nightmares for quite a while since I haven't been able to figure it out, have tried this swimming move several times and it always felt off and not powerfull enough to incorporate into my swing. Finally figured why... I have this bad habit of striding little closed to my trajectory line and when I tried to swim 180 degrees away from trajectory line it always felt like offarm came into my way.

Well I started to think about my left leg countering the throw to right and tried to feel the same kind of counter with my left arm. Suddenly my body wanted to do that swimming stroke to southeast direction (North being the target and south 180 degrees from target, sorry about my bad english).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0uu5y8-ltU

This might be horribly wrong and my reasoning behind it aswell, but wanted to share for discussion/learning purposes.
 
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Tepi said:
Sometimes I feel like SW is reading minds. Was thinking offarm just before this new video came out:
Click to expand...

That video is great, I tried it with an upside down broom to act as the stick and it made me feel a different timing and shift than I ever have before. Once you feel it, it's easy to replicate.

Basically it makes me feel like how McBeth's off arm looks...and it's pretty different to what I have been doing. Hopefully it's correct. I feel like the motion moves forward with the left arm very early, to get my torso to the front leg. The rear arm pushing motion on the stick is more to help the shift of the whole body/CoM rather than to release the arm which would be way late. Once I've done that push, I feel like the left arm is forward and can do the stall/counter of my swing, and then as my swing is releasing my left arm is already in front of my spine and body and can just continue to carry forward with my follow through. It's not lagging behind my spine or away from my body.

The move is almost twofold, it first helps move my balance to my front leg, then after that it helps my throwing arm release away a bit. Then it's in the right place in front of me to keep my body following through fully, rather than slowing it.
 
3c464f77d0cfc58c02552d895917a8e7.jpg


Pretty much at his full reach back (also interesting to note he is really using the front step to stay square and get a reach back with his body movement imo rather than thrusting his arm back and throwing body out of alignment) he has the swim arm start. Once he kicks the drive in gear the swim motion. This is some crazy **** I'm not sure I can train myself to do this but going to try. great thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sirlordcomic said:
3c464f77d0cfc58c02552d895917a8e7.jpg

...also interesting to note he is really using the front step to stay square and get a reach back with his body movement imo rather than thrusting his arm back and throwing body out of alignment...
Click to expand...

This is a great point! I'm sure SW has said it before but I wasn't ready to understand it. I recently realized I hadn't been engaging my core enough in the kinetic chain. I also had been using my torso to turn back and now I see I need to use my core to turn back.
 
RFrance said:
This is a great point! I'm sure SW has said it before but I wasn't ready to understand it. I recently realized I hadn't been engaging my core enough in the kinetic chain. I also had been using my torso to turn back and now I see I need to use my core to turn back.
Click to expand...



Real quick note, this morning went well as I focused simply on a good front foot plant that was not turned out, this led to much better drives obviously but it forced my core to get more involved rather than my torso.

I'm seeing more similarities to a proper squash backhand the more I practice disc golf.

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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