The SW22 Swim Move

[RFrance]

SW, what are we seeing in the Speedo clip? From the front view it looks like if the head remains still the body isn't torqued by the swim move but the side view shows if the head moves the body is torqued.

 

[seedlings]

SW, what are we seeing in the Speedo clip? From the front view it looks like if the head remains still the body isn't torqued by the swim move but the side view shows if the head moves the body is torqued.

You're seeing Drew Gibson's left arm pushing off the air just like the speedo pushing off the water.

 

[RFrance]

You're seeing Drew Gibson's left arm pushing off the air just like the speedo pushing off the water.

Yes, but in the side view the swimmer is torqued counter clockwise while the swim move pulls Drew's torso clockwise.

 

[seedlings]

Yes, but in the side view the swimmer is torqued counter clockwise while the swim move pulls Drew's torso clockwise.

Yeah, you might be right. The first part of the GIF swimmer is also coming up for air. Second part of the gif is cut off, but swimmer doesn't come up for air and the motions seem more similar. I'm not invested in this or anything - just what I'm seeing.

 

[sidewinder22]

SW, what are we seeing in the Speedo clip? From the front view it looks like if the head remains still the body isn't torqued by the swim move but the side view shows if the head moves the body is torqued.

You're seeing Drew Gibson's left arm pushing off the air just like the speedo pushing off the water.

Yes, but in the side view the swimmer is torqued counter clockwise while the swim move pulls Drew's torso clockwise.

Yeah, you might be right. The first part of the GIF swimmer is also coming up for air. Second part of the gif is cut off, but swimmer doesn't come up for air and the motions seem more similar. I'm not invested in this or anything - just what I'm seeing.

It's leveraging the shoulder/s forward. Rotational direction can be either way.

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HssJQD1rRo&t=3m55s

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Don't know if I've said thanks in this thread yet, but thanks again for the tips man. I've boosted my (weak ass) FH distance a good bit!

and a little boost to the BH...I guess I've been a little locked up on the FH rotation haha

 

[LATTLAYFOTTFOY]

 

[perklc]

^^ Ezra Aderhold's latest video, for those that might not want to click a link from someone making their first post almost 2 years after they created their account

 

[sidewinder22]

Simon says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZNl__wHWFI#t=8m34s

 

[Twistedhorse]

Is this the part you are talking about? Where the left arm swings in as the right heel is coming down? I never noticed that before. Definitely going to play around with the "off" arm next time I'm in the field.

Thanks for sharing! Hope you don't mind the GIF...I kept trying to loop that part in the YouTube video.

what an awesome gif, thanks!

 

[Twistedhorse]

Our boy SW22 dropped a little nugget on somebody about the off arm (paraphrasing): off arm comes in with the heel plant and then makes a swimming paddle motion during swing.



I've brought the off arm in before, but it was just to keep it tighter to the body (and then I still often forget and let it get wide)... but when he said "swimming stroke" or whatever it clicked differently for me physically. Instead of just leaving my off arm relatively limp or whatever, it comes across.

I think that motion of bringing the off arm forward made me also load a bit more directly forward and then there's also a bunch more leverage available.

I had a one tremendous shot yesterday that was unmeasured but it was very likely the longest I've thrown by a substantial margin.

Potential issues that I would see with it - and was addressing via video review:

1. I wasn't getting my shoulders squared up in the backswing because I was telegraphing the arm move forward. Fix: duh, square the shoulders up! Relatively easy fix once I caught it.

2. My backswing got tighter and came off the swing plane. Fix: loose backswing, loooooose and low so that as the disc came forward it stayed flat. This one is a bit harder to fix, because you will be tightening up the swimming arm, and need to keep everything else loose and timed right.

The only other way I can describe it is that the off arm is going to reach forward and in order to get a swim stroke, you have drive the weight properly off the back foot to be able to swim. It could be that the byproduct of trying to do this move is that I'm improving my weight transfer direction?

Lastly, my accuracy went off a bit - but there was no doubt that leverage is something real.

Just something to mess with.

did you pull your arm away at the end? similar to ezra?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieKVeYJ8DE

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

did you pull your arm away at the end? similar to ezra?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieKVeYJ8DE

Yes - this is where I would describe the actual "swim stroke" as happening. You reach forward, dig into the water and begin the paddle. I have never been very good at this, because it's so easy to mess up timing - but there's certainly power available.

I think you can also get there with the arm posted behind you as well - like simon does, and with a bit more consistency (at least right off the shelf). Funny to get a quote alert on something from 4+ years back.

 

[Twistedhorse]

Yes - this is where I would describe the actual "swim stroke" as happening. You reach forward, dig into the water and begin the paddle. I have never been very good at this, because it's so easy to mess up timing - but there's certainly power available.

I think you can also get there with the arm posted behind you as well - like simon does, and with a bit more consistency (at least right off the shelf). Funny to get a quote alert on something from 4+ years back.

been reading a lot of old threads trying to pick up things here and there

trying to take one step at a time, but all the steps seem to be related to each other so when I fix something, that messes up something else

 

[semisensei]

Chalk bag as counter weight?

Before reading this thread I had never thought about the trail arm as an active participant in the throw- I always thought i should be minimizing its drag effect by pulling it in close to the body. However, the idea of it as an active counterweight was a lightbulb moment! I can feel the trail arm adding to the energy of the throw when timed right.
As SW22 said, "The trail side should counterweight (like trebuchet weight) the arm/disc release in equal and opposite to maintain leverage into full extension/release." So my question is this: why not carry a weight in your trail hand so as to increase the potential energy in the counterweight? I see some pros (such as Adam Hammes in the Vintage open yesterday) throw with the chalk bag in his hand- I always thought it was weird to see people do that, as it seems like it would be a distraction. But after feeling how the trail arm can add power, perhaps it is intentional? What do you all think? Should I add some fishing tackle weights to my chalk bag?? Or would the TD kick me out of the tourney?

 

[flatflip]

Before reading this thread I had never thought about the trail arm as an active participant in the throw- I always thought i should be minimizing its drag effect by pulling it in close to the body. However, the idea of it as an active counterweight was a lightbulb moment! I can feel the trail arm adding to the energy of the throw when timed right.
As SW22 said, "The trail side should counterweight (like trebuchet weight) the arm/disc release in equal and opposite to maintain leverage into full extension/release." So my question is this: why not carry a weight in your trail hand so as to increase the potential energy in the counterweight? I see some pros (such as Adam Hammes in the Vintage open yesterday) throw with the chalk bag in his hand- I always thought it was weird to see people do that, as it seems like it would be a distraction. But after feeling how the trail arm can add power, perhaps it is intentional? What do you all think? Should I add some fishing tackle weights to my chalk bag?? Or would the TD kick me out of the tourney?

Theoretically, it could give you a huge advantage if it is actually rotational inertia that you are leveraging with this move.

I'm a little skeptical of how much the off hand help is exclusively due to rotational inertial transfer in the swim move. Here I think there is substantial strech reflex across the upper back musculature -- as the left shoulder drives into the swim while the right shoulder is still braced against the back leg, the lats & rhomboids first expand and then snap the right shoulder open explosively as they contract, driving the arm.

A counterweight would probably be more effective in a swedish type backswing, where you throw the off arm way out and pull it in at the hit. Nothing against it in the rules, tho that might change if someone figures out how to tap into the advantage this represents.

 

[RFrance]

Theoretically, it could give you a huge advantage if it is actually rotational inertia that you are leveraging with this move.

I'm a little skeptical of how much the off hand help is exclusively due to rotational inertial transfer in the swim move. Here I think there is substantial strech reflex across the upper back musculature -- as the left shoulder drives into the swim while the right shoulder is still braced against the back leg, the lats & rhomboids first expand and then snap the right shoulder open explosively as they contract, driving the arm.

A counterweight would probably be more effective in a swedish type backswing, where you throw the off arm way out and pull it in at the hit. Nothing against it in the rules, tho that might change if someone figures out how to tap into the advantage this represents.

That is what I'm feeling. The oblique sling being activated. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138461

 

[flatflip]

while the right shoulder is still braced against the back leg.

Sorry, the brace is at the front leg.

Think what I meant to say is there is still tension in the exterior oblique sling from the back leg to the front shoulder. I think of this tension as the charge/percussion cap and the rear shoulder drop (and the associated expansion/contraction of the upper back) as firing pin which sets it off. Not sure if this is right for pro timing but it's an effective cue for my am masters swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Good stuff starts at 1:30.

 

[Brychanus]

SW22 is fixing my swim move so I thought I'd share.

In my BH, somehow I found a way to protract my shoulders forward and learn a swim move, and it has felt like it clearly helps drive the swing. However, I put too big emphasis on swimming with the rear hand toward my front hip. I was missing the crucial key that the elbow is supposed to add a linear force to help drive the hips forward.

This mistake has been slowing down my weight transfer, keeps my arm slightly away from my body (failing to drive hips forward & preventing some reduction of moment of inertia) and adding some inconsistency to the system overall.

I always try to find a good angle on a pro when I'm learning, so here's a fresh one from Simon's recent distance contest with a local. At 1:12 you get a great angle showing how his elbow comes in tight and laterally, and the "punch"/swim is just a follow through for that maneuver.

May be old hat & obvious for many of you, but this is so different from how many people teach it that I wanted to bump it to the general thread!