Think I figured out the grip slip!

[SpringDgLover]

No it's not.

Do it with a disc at incredibly slow speed with your hand starting already way past the right pec almost at it's full extension position. initiate the pivot and clamp down as the you feel the weight shift of the disc - you can throw surprisingly far like this.

Find this feeling and reinforce it.

Add more and more motion but keep the feeling at each introduction of more motion.

in time the feeling of gripping at the hit becomes part of your drive and you can feel if you haven't achieved it before the discs flight shows you you haven't.

Blake T's hammer drills can work this feeling to an extent as well although don't quite get the full hit feeling down as this is a secondary extension after the first.

You can really work on it by just dangling the disc from your fingertips up until the lower arm chop is shooting out at which point you have to grip down hard to prevent the disc just flopping out of your hand. (Can anyone remember the big gun that drives like this, I'm sure Chris Voight used to but I can't find any video showing it. )

My point is that when the form is done correctly, a conscious thought of "gripping" a disc doesn't come into play. I'm still confused on the 3 and 4 oclock thing.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

When you say 3 and 4, where is this clock located, what is this referring to? Also the curling of the wrist to me seems a bit over blown and more prone to mistakes. This idea that someone can "control" their grip strength at the very end of their hit is silly. Considering a good players arm speed cant be 60+ miles an hr. You are looking for tendon bounce not an artificial curl snap effect. That's why you are turning things over and gripping things into Apartment complexes.

I'm not sure if you intended it or not, but that came off as pretty jerky. We're not here trying to be silly. We're working on improving our form. Being rude about it will pretty much shut down any interest in discussing things.

Curling the wrist was never talked about as an artificial movement. The wrist loads completely passively. Loading the wrist as the guys in the screen caps are above have helped me jump from 350 to 450'.

I don't currently have any issues with turning over disc unless I want to... and I was saying that if I was popping shots up a little nose up, it was to avoid breaking a window by throwing too far.

12:00 on the clock face would be pointing down the line you're throwing on, 3:00 would be the middle pic and the top and bottom would be 4.

 

[SpringDgLover]

I'm not sure if you intended it or not, but that came off as pretty jerky. We're not here trying to be silly. We're working on improving our form. Being rude about it will pretty much shut down any interest in discussing things.

Curling the wrist was never talked about as an artificial movement. The wrist loads completely passively. Loading the wrist as the guys in the screen caps are above have helped me jump from 350 to 450'.

I don't currently have any issues with turning over disc unless I want to... and I was saying that if I was popping shots up a little nose up, it was to avoid breaking a window by throwing too far.

12:00 on the clock face would be pointing down the line you're throwing on, 3:00 would be the middle pic and the top and bottom would be 4.

I was probably being a little jerky, but that's more of a product of being confused than by your posts. I also was referring other posts, when talking about wrist curl. With that being said the advice is appreciated and I try to utilize some of the tips mentioned in this thread.

So if I'm understanding correctly your saying when done correctly from feet up, the hit should be at 3'oclock?

 

[ljerome]

I'd say many players do grip full strength all the way when they don't know better. I remember a few years ago I was getting golfer's elbow because I had a death grip on the disc from the get go. After staying looser it disappeared. Staying loose to firm is the way to go until the power zone then hard. Looser for more distance, firmer for more accuracy.

This for sure. I followed the same process. Now, when I watch videos of folks wanting form critiques, it seems that many of them have very tense reach backs. I believe it is mainly due to the death grip. It is very difficult to create a nice smooth whip with the arm if the grip is too firm in the beginning. My 2 cents.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I was probably being a little jerky, but that's more of a product of being confused than by your posts. I also was referring other posts, when talking about wrist curl. With that being said the advice is appreciated and I try to utilize some of the tips mentioned in this thread.

So if I'm understanding correctly your saying when done correctly from feet up, the hit should be at 3'oclock?

Sometimes I forget that people will get into the conversation without the previous 6 months of non-stop terminology... and then it would probably be confusing as hell. I've been using the clock short hand after picking it up from old DGR threads about holding later on the rim, being very beneficial.

By holding past 3:00 to 4:00 I believe you get a bump because as Blake T put it:

"THE DIRECTIONAL CHANGE OF THE HAND ALLOWS YOU TO "THROW" THE ANGULAR VELOCITY IN THE FORWARD DIRECTION."

This would basically be creating a 2nd arc where you're at full extension, and by pulling back on the rim a bit, you sling shot the disc forward a little extra. The wide rail really promotes that 2nd arc, and I would see 50' jumps in shots with the same amount of momentum... just holding a bit later.

 

[sidewinder22]

That's an interesting take on it, I had always gone for loose, loose, loose past the body (I played around once upon a time with it so loose that the disc would just hang off my fingertips, there was a top bomber who did this too - was it Chris Voights?)and then grip it and rip through the pivot as it was explained to me that loose muscles can move faster than tight and you can get more whip through the lower arm as a result (think this was a very early lightbulb moment given to me by JHERN over at DGR) , but just playing around with the grip strength as you've shown there with the wrist at different angles shows a massive difference in grip power and I can see what you're saying with once you've gripped early you can't increase the strength later so you've pretty much shot your bolt.

Makes me wonder about the handshake position and getting the nose down, if you are actively trying to get into the handshake position before the backside of the disc is starting to come round then you may be losing grip strength as a result - this goes hand in hand with the key turn/thumb push idea through the HIT, as that motion will force the wrist down into the handshake position and nose down meaning you don't have to be in it beforehand therefore maximizing grip strength potential once you activate the muscles.

Possibly - typing as I think about it so not sure if this makes sense.

Voigt uses a fan grip, so it's already on the finger tips and loose but in control. I know some guys that hold the disc anny do that power grip with the disc just hanging from the finger tips. Anthon has his thumb and index finger off the disc until the power zone, so he does the pulling the trigger move at the end.

Too much wrist down/handshake bends the tendons unnaturally, I see a lot people doing that too far. I basically do what Climo does in that gip video before and my thumb is fairly level to slightly below to the forearm.

 

[SpringDgLover]

Sometimes I forget that people will get into the conversation without the previous 6 months of non-stop terminology... and then it would probably be confusing as hell. I've been using the clock short hand after picking it up from old DGR threads about holding later on the rim, being very beneficial.

By holding past 3:00 to 4:00 I believe you get a bump because as Blake T put it:

"THE DIRECTIONAL CHANGE OF THE HAND ALLOWS YOU TO "THROW" THE ANGULAR VELOCITY IN THE FORWARD DIRECTION."

This would basically be creating a 2nd arc where you're at full extension, and by pulling back on the rim a bit, you sling shot the disc forward a little extra. The wide rail really promotes that 2nd arc, and I would see 50' jumps in shots with the same amount of momentum... just holding a bit later.

I've been experimenting alot with the "Wide Rail" and I'm already seeing a big difference in consistency. Where before I would do a traditional reach back and then I was basically ripping and praying it went the right direction. I feel a lot more in control with the "Wide Rail" technique. I just need to remember to wait on the hit before completely rotating. I have a tendency to stand up tall at the end of my throw and I need to break that habit and finish more like a baseball swing.

 

[slowplastic]

For the guys who can throw pretty long, like 400+, are you clamping down with all fingers hard (pinch point between thumb/index, plus the remaining anchoring fingers that are into the rim), or are you focused mostly on the pinch point of index finger?

I've been approaching it by keeping my hand on the outside enough that the disc is into my palm with a medium/light pressure of those anchoring fingers, and then really focusing on the pinch point once I'm at the power pocket. I feel I have more distance to gain from the very end of the hit, but I'm not sure where to get it, if it's grip related, acceleration timing related, or arm position. I just don't know if I should be trying to redirect any energy to the "outward" pull (if that's what it's called when the disc is supposed to get heavy and tug your fingers at the very very end), or if this feeling naturally happens if I end up gripping long enough from the other positions or timing being correct.

 

[sidewinder22]

For the guys who can throw pretty long, like 400+, are you clamping down with all fingers hard (pinch point between thumb/index, plus the remaining anchoring fingers that are into the rim), or are you focused mostly on the pinch point of index finger?

I've been approaching it by keeping my hand on the outside enough that the disc is into my palm with a medium/light pressure of those anchoring fingers, and then really focusing on the pinch point once I'm at the power pocket. I feel I have more distance to gain from the very end of the hit, but I'm not sure where to get it, if it's grip related, acceleration timing related, or arm position. I just don't know if I should be trying to redirect any energy to the "outward" pull (if that's what it's called when the disc is supposed to get heavy and tug your fingers at the very very end), or if this feeling naturally happens if I end up gripping long enough from the other positions or timing being correct.

The 2 finger grip is probably the best for getting the pressure and timing down and then you can modify from that. It's hard explaining this stuff because of the circular directions, but Snap 2009 does the best job IMO...Lead with the handle and throw/release the head forward.

 

[TAFL]

Just got back from a round where I threw mostly stationary. Getting the timing on the squeeze was very much hit and miss. After I got it a couple of times with a fairway driver, I tried it with a couple of long drivers--and missed with each attempt. I'm going to have to spend a lot of time isolating the end of the motion and with slow throws, I expect, before it comes close to being consistent.

When I hit it right, though, stationary with an Eclipse, I put one past a pin into trees (about 270'); I'm pleased with that.

 

[jivey311]

I have some questions, just to clarify release points in relation to the clock face...I still get confused about this.

(Assume you want to throw RHBH straight in front of teepad(north) )

Is the clock direction in relation to thrower or teepad direction?

12 is North
3 is East
9 is West
6 is South

Or is 12 in relation to the thrower?

So 12 would be facing left if looking straight at teepad.

I've attached a photo to better describe my question. Is the correct clock orientation the pic of left or right?

I'm not sure if you intended it or not, but that came off as pretty jerky. We're not here trying to be silly. We're working on improving our form. Being rude about it will pretty much shut down any interest in discussing things.

Curling the wrist was never talked about as an artificial movement. The wrist loads completely passively. Loading the wrist as the guys in the screen caps are above have helped me jump from 350 to 450'.

I don't currently have any issues with turning over disc unless I want to... and I was saying that if I was popping shots up a little nose up, it was to avoid breaking a window by throwing too far.

12:00 on the clock face would be pointing down the line you're throwing on, 3:00 would be the middle pic and the top and bottom would be 4.

 

[TAFL]

That left pic. When your hand is on the leading edge of the disc, it's at 12:00. When your hand is on the right side of the disc during the snap, it's at 3:00. The strongest snap is to be had by keeping hold of the disc past 3:00 to the 4:00 - 5:00 range.

 

[jivey311]

Whats the best way to keep the disc nose down? I played a round with chuck kennedy one time and he suggested the bonapane grip.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The Backhand Power Grip: http://youtu.be/ZOGf9lDIj68

 

[ronnie]

Really enjoyed this video. I practiced the pec only throw yesterday, and it really seemed to help with my tendency to nose up the disc. I also was able to get a much better handle on my anhyzer (haven't been comfortable RHBH anhyzering ever really) by just lowering my elbow a little bit with the pec throw.

I had some errant throws with the timing of the squeeze, but overall I felt much more comfortable by taking out the x step and just doing the one step with the pec throw. I've never had that much distance anyways (poor form), so this drill really helped with my muscle memory on where I should be pulling the disc through and not just strong arming it.

Really enjoy your videos and explanations. Thanks for taking the time to do them. I've played for a lot of years, but have only recently gotten interested in form and taking my game to the next level. I feel like your blog and videos will help me do that.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I have some questions, just to clarify release points in relation to the clock face...I still get confused about this.

(Assume you want to throw RHBH straight in front of teepad(north) )

Is the clock direction in relation to thrower or teepad direction?

12 is North
3 is East
9 is West
6 is South

Or is 12 in relation to the thrower?

So 12 would be facing left if looking straight at teepad.

I've attached a photo to better describe my question. Is the correct clock orientation the pic of left or right?

It's in relation to the intended line. So your left pic is right if you're throwing in line with the pad, but if you were throwing out to the left, 12 would be where 11 is in the pic.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Really enjoy your videos and explanations. Thanks for taking the time to do them. I've played for a lot of years, but have only recently gotten interested in form and taking my game to the next level. I feel like your blog and videos will help me do that.

Glad to hear that Ronnie. Its nice that we've got a little online community that is happy to share.

I feel lucky that guys helped me to work all this out, and that by over hauling the form I should have no reason to not be able to play for another 20 years. The neck issues I was having with strong arming was making me feel like I had a very limited time left.

 

[JCone]

Another question

Just curious.....when I watch a video of the "4 throwers", it seems as though their shoulders start to move from the 12 o'clock position to the 3 o'clock position (follow through) as the disc starts to get parallel with their left peck. The reason I ask this is, I often stay closed until the disc hits my right peck, then start to follow through and I often feel bunched up, not following through, and having no idea where the disc is going to go, and getting very little D. Any idea what I'm missing here? Thanks in advance.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Not sure exactly what you mean, but here's the right pec.

 

[JCone]

Thanks!

Ok, but a 1/2 second (?) later it appears Paul & possibly Will are starting to sling their shoulders to a more open position. It's here that the disc is a little closer to their right pec. Is this when one is supposed to start to open, I think I'm opening a little late, possibly just after the disc clears my torso. Hope I don't sound argumentative, I have mad respect for the work you're doing & can't thank you enough for your help.