Throw or Drop

[foxdawg10]

Simon's throw is very different than what Lisa did IMO.

Agreed. These are different scenarios. Simon let the disc go. Lisa held on, and dropped it at end of her soon. Facing 180 degrees from target.

 

[araytx]

Simon's throw is very different than what Lisa did IMO.

Agreed. These are different scenarios. Simon let the disc go. Lisa held on, and dropped it at end of her soon. Facing 180 degrees from target.

And that's the point, guys. It's no problem; I understand your perspective. We can just agree to disagree. I think Lisa was ABSOLUTELY trying to throw the disc and couldn't stop (not "stopped and dropped"). She never goes through that type of reachback and release motion unless she is making a full-out throw. Being from Texas and playing tournaments all over for years, I've seen her in many events and her "warm-up/practice/line-it-up" stroke (pre-throw) is far different.

Ultimately I say great! you guys see it differently. it is always good to get multiple opinions.

 

[robdeforge]

And that's the point, guys. It's no problem; I understand your perspective. We can just agree to disagree. I think Lisa was ABSOLUTELY trying to throw the disc and couldn't stop (not "stopped and dropped"). She never goes through that type of reachback and release motion unless she is making a full-out throw. Being from Texas and playing tournaments all over for years, I've seen her in many events and her "warm-up/practice/line-it-up" stroke (pre-throw) is far different.

Ultimately I say great! you guys see it differently. it is always good to get multiple opinions.

I'm very surprised you think the two situations are similar.

Simon has already let go of the disc at this point. Lisa is still holding onto hers and continues to for a little time after this point.

 

[BrotherDave]

Two quick things before reply - 1) I do think the throw v. non-throw is better than throw v drop. There can be non-throws that are not drops. In fact one of the examples above actually went in the basket -- ironically no one is touching that argument, so I have to take some satisfaction therein.

Not so fast there, buddy. If it came to rest in the basket than it's covered by the rule book under completing the hole. Now if a player non-throws and accidentally parks a basket...


-----------------------

Another thing we need clarification on is what exactly defines a back swing? If you're throwing a 360 run up (I've seen this done on the Pro tour so not implausible) a lot of your back swing is actually a front swing. Who is to say Lisa wasn't attempting a poorly executed 360 and dropped it mid-run up?

 

[robdeforge]

Who is to say Lisa wasn't attempting a poorly executed 360 and dropped it mid-run up?

common sense.

 

[Rastnav]

Lisa clearly conoleted a backswing and started a forward swing. The only real question for me is whether also fully completed the swing attempt before dropping the disc. Real time to me it looked like she did. It seems that the disc doesn't pop out until her arm has reached the final limit of the swing and begins to recoil, so she completed the swing attempt before she drops it, but that's anything but unequivocal.

Just as a for example, imagine she had held on to the the disc while falling to the ground due to her footing slipping during the throw, and the disc only came out when she reached out to catch herself on the ground. That seems to me to be a clear non-throw. Where the line is always going to subjective.

 

[txmxer]

Lisa clearly conoleted a backswing and started a forward swing. The only real question for me is whether also fully completed the swing attempt before dropping the disc. Real time to me it looked like she did. It seems that the disc doesn't pop out until her arm has reached the final limit of the swing and begins to recoil, so she completed the swing attempt before she drops it, but that's anything but unequivocal.

Just as a for example, imagine she had held on to the the disc while falling to the ground due to her footing slipping during the throw, and the disc only came out when she reached out to catch herself on the ground. That seems to me to be a clear non-throw. Where the line is always going to subjective.

Pretty much exactly how I saw it and agree it is subjective.

 

[araytx]

Not so fast there, buddy. If it came to rest in the basket than it's covered by the rule book under completing the hole. Now if a player non-throws and accidentally parks a basket...

But that was my point. If said "slip out of the hand" had landed in the basket is it still the "non-throw" that you all claim it is??


-----------------------

Another thing we need clarification on is what exactly defines a back swing? If you're throwing a 360 run up (I've seen this done on the Pro tour so not implausible) a lot of your back swing is actually a front swing. Who is to say Lisa wasn't attempting a poorly executed 360 and dropped it mid-run up?

Maybe someone who's seen her at Texas tournaments at least 50-60 times over the years and seen her make (literally) hundreds of throws.

I'm very surprised you think the two situations are similar.

Simon has already let go of the disc at this point. Lisa is still holding onto hers and continues to for a little time after this point.

But that isn't the point. Nowhere in the definition of throw does it mention or even allude to "where you let go." The definition is about a "competitive attempt to change the lie," or aka imho, INTENT. I've seen her throw many times and she ONLY does it like that when she is trying to throw. Like I said, I don't see it as she "stopped and dropped" like others are saying. I think she was absolutely trying to throw and couldn't stop. But I certainly will go along with the group's decision if I am the only one on a card who said so. Having a different opinion in a judgement situation is OK. One thing I feel pretty certain of -- different people see it differently.

Pretty much exactly how I saw it and agree it is subjective.

100%. It is subjective. Neither opinion (in this situation) is less valid.