[Innova] TL as replacement for seasoned Teebird?

[skurf]

I had a nicely seasoned Champion 12x Teebird that I recently lost. It took years to get that Teebird seasoned to the point that I liked the most. I could hyzer-flip it on about a 30 degree angle, have it flatten out, and it just seemed to glide straight forever with an easy fade at the end. The only bad thing about it was that it was horribly flippy into a headwind, unlike when it was new.

So would a fresh out-of-the-box Champion TL fly similar to the way I've described my seasoned Teebird? Would a Champ TL be a good replacement for it or is there something better out there?

Also, what's the difference in how the various plastics fly for the TL? And while we're at it maybe someone could describe the differences in the TL, TL3, and TL+?

 

[SD86]

Also, what's the difference in how the various plastics fly for the TL? And while we're at it maybe someone could describe the differences in the TL, TL3, and TL+?

The TL is one of my two or three all-time favorite discs. I mostly bag Star TLs, but I do have Champ TLs and a Plus-Mold Champ TL, and a GStar TL and GStar TL3.

The Innova "3" series are various mold bottoms with flat tops. The Roc3 is a flat-topped Roc, the Mako3 is a flat-topped Mako, and so on. The TL3 is meant to be the same: faster speed, less glide. I'd love to have a Star TL3, but they only come out in GStar. The GStar TL3 was a tad faster than the TL, but the differences vs. a regular TL were not significant.

The Plus-Mold is a 'relaxed' angle of the rim underneath. Some like it and some don't. I like the Plus-Mold Teebird; the Plus-Mold TL is okay but I prefer the original.

Champion TLs have a little more fade fresh-out-of-the-box than Star TLs, and Champion discs seem to last forever before breaking in. I'll bag my Champion TL when I need that fade to be certain, and maybe if the wind is up; otherwise, I'm bagging a Star TL.

I had a nicely seasoned Champion 12x Teebird that I recently lost. It took years to get that Teebird seasoned to the point that I liked the most. I could hyzer-flip it on about a 30 degree angle, have it flatten out, and it just seemed to glide straight forever with an easy fade at the end. The only bad thing about it was that it was horribly flippy into a headwind, unlike when it was new.

So would a fresh out-of-the-box Champion TL fly similar to the way I've described my seasoned Teebird? Would a Champ TL be a good replacement for it or is there something better out there?

IMHO, a fresh Champion TL likely will not be exactly like your beat-in Teebird; It won't be as flippy as you're describing your Teebird to (now) be, and it probably will need some use to get where hyzer-flipping it will produce the same result as your Teebird. For the record, I don't hyzerflip my TLs; I usually am anny-flexing them or throwing them straight.

But, hey! Try a fresh Champ TL and see.

Another suggestion is to get a DX Teebird... my DX Teebird seasoned in quickly to fly a lot like my Star TLs. So in a pinch, you might try getting a DX Teebird while you work on beating a new Teebird against trees, brick walls, pavement, whatever works to get it beat in...

 

[skurf]

Thanks for the run-down SD86. I ordered a Star and Champ TL just to compare the two and from the sound of it the Star will probably be slightly more understable and good for hyzer-flips.

I'm not a fan of DX though. I don't like how once you beat in a disc to its sweet spot, it only remains at that sweet spot for a couple of months before becoming a flippy pancake that would rather roll than fly.

 

[DiscinFiend]

I'd say because you already know you like Teebirds, get a GStar Teebird. They start out less overstable than current production Champ/Star. If it doesn't fly like your beat 12x Champion did right away, it'll get there a lot quicker than any other premium plastic Teebird will.

 

[ilmcgee]

Why not try a Star or Gstar Teebird? I heard the latest run of Echostar is good as well.

 

[Snap-it]

Star TL's are very straight, good glide, tiny fade. I used to warm up with 3, to start a throwing session or round. I've never thrown a champ TL though...

 

[skurf]

I'd say because you already know you like Teebirds, get a GStar Teebird. They start out less overstable than current production Champ/Star. If it doesn't fly like your beat 12x Champion did right away, it'll get there a lot quicker than any other premium plastic Teebird will.

Why not try a Star or Gstar Teebird? I heard the latest run of Echostar is good as well.

The thing is, I don't want a disc that flies like a Teebird. I have S-PD's for that...if that makes sense. I want a disc that I can hyzer-flip to straight that won't turn over and has a gentle fade at the end.

 

[Snap-it]

The thing is, I don't want a disc that flies like a Teebird. I have S-PD's for that...if that makes sense. I want a disc that I can hyzer-flip to straight that won't turn over and has a gentle fade at the end.

TL then...7/5/0/1

...solid HSS, minimal fade.

 

[ilmcgee]

The thing is, I don't want a disc that flies like a Teebird. I have S-PD's for that...if that makes sense. I want a disc that I can hyzer-flip to straight that won't turn over and has a gentle fade at the end.

Then I'd still suggest Gstar or Echo. Get the reliability of the Teebird wing in a plastic that doesn't start as stable.

 

[slowplastic]

Initially I was going to say Gstar Teebird or maybe a Discmania FD...but after you described the flight you want in more detail I think you'll be happy with the TL's. They have a pretty firm "negative" HSS, where they will turn when you throw them hard but they never keep turning, and only a drifting fade (I've never thrown a beat one though). May not be exactly like a beat Teebird, but they are good discs.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I would get a Luster FD or a C-FD if I were you.

 

[jskew113]

I would get a Luster FD or a C-FD if I were you.

I agree. If you bag PDs I'm surprised you have not tried an FD for this spot.

 

[SD86]

I agree. If you bag PDs I'm surprised you have not tried an FD for this spot.

I agree that a C-Line FD might work as well if not better than a TL for what the OP is looking for...

 

[dw00]

My 158g Champ Teebird flies a lot like my 163g Star TL so you could always just go down in weight if you are looking for a Teebird with less fade. My Star TLs and Champ TLs have almost no fade. The Champ TL has a little more hss and a tick more fade. The seasoned 170g Star Teebird I used to throw was similar to my 163g Star TL but had a little more hss and more fade. I have only beaten almost all of the fade out of a heavy fading teebird in DX.

 

[mgamache8]

are you looking for a long, sweeping fade out of a 30* hyper flip? Or just flip to flat and go straight?

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

An Axiom Crave might be something to consider. They've got decent HSS with less fade than a TeeBird.

 

[skurf]

I've tried C-FD's before and didn't like them. They were straight, but they seemed to lack glide and distance. This is going to be a replacement for my main driver that I use on about 50% of my tee box shots, so I want to be able to get some good distance out of it.

What about a disc from another company, like maybe Discraft's Xpress or Vibram's Vamp?

I have a broken-in P-PD that flies like I'm talking about, but it broke in pretty fast and I don't have a lot of faith in it holding its current flight-pattern for very long. I'm looking for something in premium plastic that will fly like my beat-in Champion Teebird/P-PD out-of-the-box, but something that will also hold its flight pattern for a while without turning overly flippy.

are you looking for a long, sweeping fade out of a 30* hyper flip? Or just flip to flat and go straight?

I want it to flip up to flat and go straight. Even having a little bit of turn in it after it flips up for some extra distance would be nice, but I definitely don't want it to turn over and start tracking right (RHBH) for an extended period.

 

[ilmcgee]

Maybe a champ Leo or leo3 then.

 

[Inverted]

I've tried C-FD's before and didn't like them. They were straight, but they seemed to lack glide and distance.

Wow. That is kinda surprising. I throw Teebirds and carry one FD for flips and anny's. It clearly gets me more distance and glide than all my Teebirds.


If you need to beat in a Teebird in a hurry, get a DX Glow version. They beat in quick, but admittedly dont hold that sweet spot long. Good to get you thru in a pinch though...

 

[Mulligan]

Sounds like you want a Leo3 to me.