To Be Called A 'Bagger...'

[DavidSauls]

"Sandbagging", as as sports term, has been around for much longer than disc golf has.

 

[Arisugawa]

Enjoy...

 

[Dingus]

For me and my life, I don't really see the point of protected divisions. Don't get me wrong, I understand why certain people would use them. Ladies and old guys typically like to play with their own demographics. I wouldn't want my kids playing on a card with pot smoking cursing 20 somethings. But for me, someone squarely within the majority demographic, I would rather lose open than try to pick and choose a division I could win in. I don't want non-cash payouts, and I don't mind losing. And if I happen to play well enough to win, I want the win to be something I can personally be proud of; I wouldn't brag to my work buddies that I won a tourney in an AM division (although they would make fun of me equally).

Many people are wired differently. They are wired to win, even if winning means beating a watered down talent pool. So when those folks pick and choose their division to "win", they want to know EXACTLY how hard the opponents will be. And if some of those opponents are more talented than that person, well, it makes them unhappy because they specifically picked an AM division to avoid that level of talent. If a person wired to measure fun by "winning" plays what they consider to be their best, and still lose, even after they picked their competitive level, it makes them feel like they are cheated, hence the accusation of "bagging". In reality, the other golfer simply picked their winning division better than them.

A separate issue is when people make part of their income selling their prizes. Then it is a monetary thing. Every spot lower you finish is money out of your pocket. In this case whining about baggers is just a matter of clearing out competitive elements that take money out of your pocket. I have zero sympathy for these folks; AM divisions are supposed to be for prizes and not money, so if you are selling the prizes you are simply circumventing the spirit of the division.

All in all, I don't see bagging as a problem. If I were in the position of most AM1 golfers I would probably be playing PRO, but to each their own. If you think Disc Golf has a problem, read this:
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/dirty-little-secrets-of-a-sandbagger

 

[Hampstead]

-sings-

The threads on DGCR go round and round
Round and round
Round and round

 

[Jukeshoe]

-sings-

The threads on DGCR go round and round
Round and round
Round and round

*falls off thread-go-round*

*skins both knees*

 

[DavidSauls]

-sings-

The threads on DGCR go round and round
Round and round
Round and round

At least this time, it's someone new to the game, the term, and its usage at tournaments, which is at least understandable.

Unlike the 11,219 other threads, which have a 99.1% pure griping percentage. (The other 0.9% started with joking about it, though they quickly soured).

 

[araytx]

Baggers are conscienceless sociopaths with no remorse who need to constantly feed their fragile overblown egos with unearned wins.

Already stated, but I'll chime in.

Bagging is "knowing" you'll win instead of *trying* to win.

Ryal,

I am with MTL. There is no "sandbagging" in disc golf. Sandbagging would be intentionally concealing your skills -- which you can't do because we have ratings system and you cannot play in a division which your rating says you are overqualified for. DO certain players think others should play up into a higher division despite this fact? Absolutely. They'll even attach all kinds of motives like wanting to win -- as you've seen above -- like ego, money, etc to it -- whether they know the person or not.

But these facts remain --

*a 934-rated player cannot "sandbag" in MA2 (Intermediate);
*an 899-rated player cannot "sandbag" in MA3 (recreational); and
*a player who has never accepted cash sanctioned cannot "sandbag" in MA1, regardless of how high his rating is.​

The PDGA guidelines say so. https://www.pdga.com/files/divisions_ratings_and_points_factors_10-31-2019.pdf

And before anyone says anything, the tournament can see the ratings of players who are not current members even if we can't.

 

[uncle pennybags]

In my area there used to be a lot of flighted tournaments. In those you'd see someone sandbagging the first round just get get flighted into a lower division that they could cash in.

We still see that some with people who don't have a PDGA number (or aren't current) and will play a lower division then they should. One of the bigger excuses is 'I don't have enough money to play advanced/open...so I'll play intermediate' :thmbdown:

 

[Dingus]

'I don't have enough money to play advanced/open...so I'll play intermediate' :thmbdown:

I never understood why Open costs more. Is it just to juice the payout with our own money?

 

[F. Howl]

Round here if you win multiple times in the raffle or if you win the big prize by only buying one ticket (I got a basket doing that), people yell out "raffle bagger!"

Is that common in other areas or just a colloquialism?

 

[Armus Patheticus]

It's impossible to play in a division you are not permitted to play in.

This is absolutely untrue. In fact it's very easily done.

 

[araytx]

In my area there used to be a lot of flighted tournaments. In those you'd see someone sandbagging the first round just get get flighted into a lower division that they could cash in.

We still see that some with people who don't have a PDGA number (or aren't current) and will play a lower division then they should. One of the bigger excuses is 'I don't have enough money to play advanced/open...so I'll play intermediate' :thmbdown:

Intentionally playing badly is sandbagging, but then again, is that sanctioned?

There is no such thing as a bagger. It's impossible to play in accordance with PDGA guidelines and in a division you are not permitted to play in.

This is absolutely untrue. In fact it's very easily done.

ftfh...tmit

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

. . . I heard a term being thrown around fairly commonly.
"Bagger"
It was clearly being used as an insult: almost like a direct attack on someone's character or integrity with enough animosity and vitriol behind it to sound like more than just friendly banter.

"Bagger" is a compliment. It may be an unintended compliment, but it is a compliment nonetheless. It is, unquestionably, a claim that you are good or that you performed well recently.

Even when thrown around as a joke or intended as an insult, it is a compliment. If it weren't a compliment, it would neither be funny nor reasonably calculated to be insulting.

When used in reference to you by someone against whom you had a lower score, it is especially complimentary and satisfying. In this situation, it is also strong commentary on the character of the person who uses it as an intended insult - it reveals them to be a loser at both disc golf and life.

Don't feel bad for people that you beat in a fair competition. Also don't worry about any hard feelings that they may have due to losing to you or just losing in general. Sadly those kind of people can be found in any sport.

 

[armiller]

During the socially distant check-in, the lunch break and the socially distant payouts at the end, I heard a term being thrown around fairly commonly.
"Bagger"
It was clearly being used as an insult: almost like a direct attack on someone's character or integrity with enough animosity and vitriol behind it to sound like more than just friendly banter. With no context or comprehension about why the term is an insult, I felt confused and saw for the first time that the disc golf community might have a dark and nasty underbelly.

...

So, after all that, what is a 'bagger' meant to be in that context? How does it serve as an insult?

I don't know exactly where the term originated. But I guess it's someone trying to "bag" trophies and wins. So it's sometimes used to refer to players winning a division when they "should" have been playing in a higher division.

In this region (Pittsburgh and northern West Virginia), I've heard the term used but it's usually in jest, not as an insult like you mentioned. I suppose there's some thinly veiled jealousy present sometimes, but in general people seem (to me) to be joking around.

You can tell from the comments that this hits close to home for some, probably from both sides. In general, I'm sorry it gave you the impression of there being a dark and nasty underbelly; however, it probably shouldn't be too much of a surprise given the both competitive and base human nature.

People play tournaments for different reasons. For some, winning becomes an important part of why they play. They'd rather win in rec than finish 4th in intermediate, or something like that. Who knows? It may have been a warranted accusation in the case of your tournament. Either way, try not to let it take the fun out of disc golf or out of the tournament experience.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't know exactly where the term originated. But I guess it's someone trying to "bag" trophies and wins. So it's sometimes used to refer to players winning a division when they "should" have been playing in a higher division.
.

It's not trying to "bag" trophies, it's short for "sandbagging", which is an old term for deliberately underperforming to gain advantage. If you're a good player in pickup basketball, you might shoot poorly before teams are picked, to be picked lower and give your team a better chance to win.

 

[armiller]

It's not trying to "bag" trophies, it's short for "sandbagging", which is an old term for deliberately underperforming to gain advantage. If you're a good player in pickup basketball, you might shoot poorly before teams are picked, to be picked lower and give your team a better chance to win.

Interesting. I've played way more pick up basketball in my life than disc golf, and I've either never seen that strategy or was simply oblivious.

As far as disc golf, is the implication that players have previously played poorly rated rounds intentionally so they can qualify for a lower division? That seems kinda silly. Maybe I should just be thankful that things seem pretty reasonable in my neck of the woods.

 

[Casey 1988]

-sings-

The threads on DGCR go round and round
Round and round
Round and round

Nah it is :

They spin me round like a record baby like a record baby. Spin me right round like a Record baby

Sorry I had to go there, also I did some early on in my time on here that were repeat's or very close to it.

The ones I was doing were disc challenge ones that I repeated in my first year or two on here. I have since done some dumb ones or ones that needed a new post for, like the Knock off of the old style of Gorilla Sports Gorilla Backpack. The Original had people telling them to flood Amazon online store with piss poor fake reviews so the item gets a suspicious flag and ends up taken down.

PS: Please do not go into more detail.

 

[GripEnemy]

. . . valid point directed at OP even though I was quoted . . .

I should play Open only (if/when competing).

I've only ever played in Am1, most of which were BYOP doubles, and it wasn't many tournaments (rate of play is ). Yes you and MTL quote the PDGA and all that good stuff, but I guarantee I could squeeze in at least five tournaments at Am2, if not more. Should I or will I? Absolutely not. However, I absolutely could "bag" those tournaments...and then I could Am1 the same way. I'm not shooting constant 1200 rounds so how would a TD be able to truly tell my skill level (assuming I don't know them personally)?

Just sayin'

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

One guy that's cheap and used to be pretty awesome.. Would only show up if money was there to be won, big carryover on an ace pot he was there.. Tournaments he's won still playing advanced. One year he registered as "Sandy Bagger". Last year I played advanced I was second overall!! Best two rounds of my life back to back in a tourney! I play pro now and am way off the top..

 

[GripEnemy]

I should clarify.

I CANNOT bag Am1 around here. That was spoken in hyperbole.

Sorry for the double post.