Top of Intermediate or Bottom of Advanced?

[scarpfish]

Sandbagging. So often proclaimed. So seldom proven.

 

[JedV]

Sandbagging. So often proclaimed. So seldom proven.

Pretty much! I can't wait until I'm 40 and can play in an age protected division. Accusations of baggery be Damned.

 

[ejvogie]

Age-protected divisions are glorious. The number of tantrums I have seen have decreased exponentially since I started playing them. Only have seen 1 in 2 years since moving...up? Laterally? IDK...

 

[DavidSauls]

Age-protected divisions are glorious. The number of tantrums I have seen have decreased exponentially since I started playing them. Only have seen 1 in 2 years since moving...up? Laterally? IDK...

Yeah, I lingered in Advanced into my mid-40s, until it became apparent that I wasn't in a slump, but a decline. When my younger brothers hit 40, I convinced them to swallow their pride and go masters, and it only took one event to sell them on it.

 

[joshmo65]

I think the notion of being a good cardmate and not being a grumpy jackass when things go wrong is entirely independent of one's skill level or choice of division. My guess is that that 880 player would be bitching and moaning about the missed 50 footer if he were playing Rec, Intermediate, Advanced, Open or casually at his favorite local course.

True true. But it is more likely that an 880 rated player would throw a bad shot than a 930 rated player and I guess that is why it seems like the people playing up would be more likely to be poor cardmates.

 

[gdub58]

True true. But it is more likely that an 880 rated player would throw a bad shot than a 930 rated player and I guess that is why it seems like the people playing up would be more likely to be poor cardmates.

Throwing a bad shot doesn't make someone a poor cardmate (at least I hope not for my own sake). Throwing a bad shot and then..
- Proclaiming repeatedly "that disc always turns over" and "I always park this hole",
- Dropping loud f-bombs while others are preparing to throw,
- Taking several minutes to line up and throw all six shots on a hole, or
- Not paying attention to where their crappy throw went which means I have to help them look for it

makes them a poor cardmate.

 

[rd.bittle]

Throwing a bad shot doesn't make someone a poor cardmate (at least I hope not for my own sake). Throwing a bad shot and then..
- Proclaiming repeatedly "that disc always turns over" and "I always park this hole",
- Dropping loud f-bombs while others are preparing to throw,
- Taking several minutes to line up and throw all six shots on a hole, or
- Not paying attention to where their crappy throw went which means I have to help them look for it

makes them a poor cardmate.

Truth, all of it.

 

[biscoe]

Age-protected divisions are glorious. The number of tantrums I have seen have decreased exponentially since I started playing them. Only have seen 1 in 2 years since moving...up? Laterally? IDK...

Advanced masters is the most likely division for a tantrum in this area by a wide margin- of course that is pretty much due to 1 player.

 

[gdub58]

Sandbagging. So often proclaimed. So seldom proven.

Sandbagging is so much harder to pull off in disc golf than other sports.

Sure, if you can find someone who will play you for $1 per hole, then you tank the first few holes, get the bet raised to $10 per hole, and then you turn it on and clean up, then you have sandbagged. Good luck with finding someone who will agree to do that.

The other form of sandbagging is done in ball golf with handicap manipulation. Since your handicap includes self-reported scores from casual rounds, it is quite easy to turn in a bunch of rounds of 85-90 and establish a 15 handicap. From there you play in a tournament, shoot 76, and win your flight or the net score prize. In 40 years of playing ball golf, I've only seen it done a couple of times and they didn't fool anyone.

In disc golf, since ratings are based on sanctioned rounds, the only way to truly sandbag would be to tank sanctioned league rounds or small c-tiers, establish a rating of 930, and then play intermediate in a big tournament like BG Ams and win lots of merch. Sounds like way too much effort to me.

Then there's the people who don't have a rating who enter a tournament in MA2 or MA3 and shoot lights out, but I don't believe those are the people who are usually accused of sandbagging. Personally, I think those without a rating should be placed in a separate trophy-only division, but that's a different discussion...

 

[Stardoggy]

Then there's the people who don't have a rating who enter a tournament in MA2 or MA3 and shoot lights out, but I don't believe those are the people who are usually accused of sandbagging. Personally, I think those without a rating should be placed in a separate trophy-only division, but that's a different discussion...

I did forget about this.

Personally, I think anybody that plays sanctioned tournaments should be forced to play in the highest available am division until they have a rating, or what is said above.

 

[AndyJB]

I did forget about this.

Personally, I think anybody that plays sanctioned tournaments should be forced to play in the highest available am division until they have a rating, or what is said above.

I feel the exact opposite. I think unrated players should be forced to play Novice. Shame them into joining the PDGA.

 

[joshmo65]

Throwing a bad shot doesn't make someone a poor cardmate (at least I hope not for my own sake). Throwing a bad shot and then..
- Proclaiming repeatedly "that disc always turns over" and "I always park this hole",
- Dropping loud f-bombs while others are preparing to throw,
- Taking several minutes to line up and throw all six shots on a hole, or
- Not paying attention to where their crappy throw went which means I have to help them look for it

makes them a poor cardmate.

Yes. Sorry. I should have been more clear. I don't care how you are shooting. I'm just saying that poor players have more opportunities to blow up and therefore appear to blow up/swear/kick things than better plaers.

 

[bnbanbury]

Play whichever you feel like will be more fun and more rewarding. It sounds like you have been playing in the correct division previous to this in terms of your skill set but i dont think you would be scraping the bottom of the barrel in advanced either. Just dont let other people's opinion of where you should be playing pressure you into playing a division that you won't enjoy playing. I see a lot of players, particularly in the jump from advanced to pro, who spend a lot of events playing over their head and leaving unhappy because of the crap they have taken from other players.

 

[Improbably]

I feel the exact opposite. I think unrated players should be forced to play Novice. Shame them into joining the PDGA.

I think the PDGA is what's shameful.

 

[Stardoggy]

I feel the exact opposite. I think unrated players should be forced to play Novice. Shame them into joining the PDGA.

Except then, anybody that is actually a Novice gets the major screwjob.

 

[Steve West]

Someone has to be the highest rated player in Intermediate. Why not you?

If the highest rated player always moves to Advanced, soon there won't be any players rated 900+ in Intermediate. Then, it would just be a mislabeled Recreational division.

 

[DavidSauls]

. Personally, I think those without a rating should be placed in a separate trophy-only division, but that's a different discussion...

Personally, I think anybody that plays sanctioned tournaments should be forced to play in the highest available am division until they have a rating, or what is said above.

I feel the exact opposite. I think unrated players should be forced to play Novice.

I think we should avoid discouraging new players from playing tournaments.

Either they'll get good advice and play in an appropriate division, or they'll play one, perhaps two, events out of their skill level before their rating is established.

Nor should we make it harder for people to taste tournament play, just to deal with the hypothetical sandbagger who never joins the PDGA so he can play below his skill level. Such a player should be known to local TDs in fairly short order, and they can deal with it.

 

[Consult20]

Personally, I think those without a rating should be placed in a separate trophy-only division, but that's a different discussion...

I did forget about this.

Personally, I think anybody that plays sanctioned tournaments should be forced to play in the highest available am division until they have a rating, or what is said above.

Interesting ideas -- take a look at this C tier held over two days -- everyone from Rec to Open played the same layout. Gives some weight to your ideas...

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/25324

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/25315

 

[AndyJB]

Someone has to be the highest rated player in Intermediate. Why not you?

If the highest rated player always moves to Advanced, soon there won't be any players rated 900+ in Intermediate. Then, it would just be a mislabeled Recreational division.

Thats how it is here in Colorado. You will only very rarely see someone over 900 playing MA2, and even then it is only a few points over. I think the highest rated for States in MA2 this year was 918.

Coloradans also like to use the phrase "true rec" which means (to them) begginer players, rather than actual recreational players. Of course, around here no TDs ever offer Novice. So it's very weird. We have 930 rated people playing MPO every tourney because people called them sandbaggers at some point.

So even though ratings and divisions were initially intended to even the playing field nationwide, you still need to gauge the local customs to see where you should play.

 

[JC17393]

Yes. Sorry. I should have been more clear. I don't care how you are shooting. I'm just saying that poor players have more opportunities to blow up and therefore appear to blow up/swear/kick things than better plaers.

I see what you're saying. I think the counter to that is that what constitutes a "blow up" varies depending on skill level, so a blow-up that might trigger a tantrum from an 880 player might be bushwhacking to a 6 on a simple 240 foot par 3. A blow-up that might trigger a tantrum for a 980 player is clipping one tree off the tee and having to layup for 3 on the same hole.

Gotta say I'd have a lot less tolerance for swearing and bag-kicking on the latter than the former, assuming it's an otherwise isolated incident.