Tournament rant

[the invisible tree]

***WARNING RATHER LONG***

I played a tournament this past weekend. There was an asshole in my group. After the first two holes were played and he hadn't marked his lie a single time before picking up his disc I very politely told him that he has to mark. I didn't say it was a warning or threaten strokes or anything. I figured it was his first tournament.

Me: Hey, I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you've got to mark your spot before you pick up your disc.
Him: That's bullshit! I flipped. You're allowed to flip.
Me (fully aware that "flipping" is not legal): That's fine but if you want to throw the same disc you have to mark.
Him: Whatever dude. I've played with some of the best players in town and no one has said that to me.
Me: That's because no one calls people on rules in casual rounds.
Him: God, I can't believe this shit. FINE I WILL JUST MARK WITH ANOTHER DISC.

The guy had a mini in his bag. I'm not sure why that was such a problem for him. Afterwards he continued not marking his lie about 75% of the time. He took pretty favorable interpretations of his unmarked lie often. He fell on
every single putt. I let it go. I play AM2 so I'm pretty much just out there for fun and saw no reason to let this guy ruin my enjoyment by having an 18 hole argument.

We arrived at this hole which is about 2 or 3 holes from the end of our round.

The first shot is a left to right turnover shot. Fairway is about 50 feet wide with trees on both sides. Right side is also bordered by a softball field. Anything over the fence is out of bounds. Put your disc in the woods on the left or right and it will almost always cost you a stroke. Your second shot is a straight shot at the basket. Even most big arms can't make it to the basket on the second shot. Some people throw a left to right to left "S" shot with good results. Good luck and stay out of the woods.

The guy had been a complete ass to me from the time I told him about having to mark until we got there. I won't go into all of it. He turns his drive over into the woods on the right. He walks up and takes a stance about a foot in front of his disc and steps even further forward to get to an opening to allow him to throw back onto the fairway. I said something to him before he threw and he says "Jesus leave me alone, I wasn't going to throw, I was just looking". It was quite obvious that he was preparing to throw when I spoke. He then moves back and takes a stance behind his lie and takes a throw out over the softball fields ( the only way he could get back to the fairway without throwing backwards). I hear the disc hit fence. I then proceeded to help a guy look for his disc in the woods on the left. As I'm walking over I hear the asshole's buddy ask him if the disc is in or out. "In" he says. After finding the other dude's disc in the woods I walk out to see the asshole guy climbing back over the fence. His disc is slap in the middle of the fairway. Before I say anything he says "What are you going to say now?". I asked him if his disc was in the softball field. He answers yes. There is a small hill that is covered with young pine trees that drops about 2 or 3 feet down towards the softball field fence. I told him that his drop is a meter from where it was last in bounds which means he should be throwing from back down at the bottom of the embankment behind the trees. The guy blows up. I said "fine do whatever you want" and walked away from him. I made a note to ask the TD about it after the round. I marked the scorecard with the score he gave me playing it his BS way.
When I got back to the scorer's table (Is that what we call it?) I told the TD what happened and he affirmed that I was right about the drop zone. He said to have the guy come talk to him and that he will take care of it. When I get back from lunch I see that the guy still has the score that playing the wrong lie got him. I asked about it and he says that according to the ass the 7 I marked was with the penalty. I only had about 2 minutes to get to my hole at that time so he said to go on and come back and talk to him after the round.
When I come back after round 2 (I went back to help a guy in my group look for a disc that he had lost so he and I were the last 2 to come in) the TD comes up to me and asks me again what happened. The discussion between Me, the TD, and the ass takes place in full view of everyone that has played the tournament. It got quite loud and heated and was very embarassing for me because now I look like a rules nazi calling this guy playing in his first tournament on an infraction. The ass flat out lies and says that his teeshot went out of bounds and his 7 was the right score. He also says that he got mad because of my attitude towards him when I told him the correct lie to play from. This argument went on for some time and he finally conceeded and took the 9. The TD then apologizes to him and says he's really sorry about how things turned out and walks off leaving me standing there. The TD is employed by the PDGA. I was rather angry.

The End
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[TROTTER]

The TD let you down...

 

[Blake_T1]

i give you mad props for standing up for the rules.

rules are player-enforced and thus up to players to enforce them.

if he was such a saq-head that he didn't figure out what rules were after you gave them to him, he likely won't be playing a tournament ever again, but i don't think that is a bad thing.

the last thing competitive disc golf needs is more tools out there.

 

[Fritz]

Exactly Blake.

Kudos to you man for sticking up fore the rules and not letting this tool get away with it. Even though the TD just choose not to do anything. Who cares what division you are in Rules are Rules for a reason.

 

[AciDBatH666]

Yeah I agree, the TD let you down. It sucks, but the TD has to be the one to back up the rules. And on top of that, the ppl in your group should of said something as well.

I play tournament rounds pretty casually. I play by the rules, but I still don't take it super serious. If a player in my group has a question about something that's reasonable, I'll give them the advantage (within reason) after asking another player in the group if they think its ok too.... But I never get to the point where I'd end up stroking em.
THings like falling putts, and other stuff, I have no problem telling them "Hey, what you just did is strokable, I'm just letting you know because if I dont say something, someone else will probably call you out on it. Just giving you a heads up"

But man, what a hardass. I think you did the right thing. But honestly more ppl in your group should of backed you up instead of making you look like the nazi.
Which is why I dont like to tell ppl they are wrong unless someone else is around that knows the rules.
BUt you did get the shaft. Having to confront him on it in front of everyone. I would support the TD's decision, but I would also tell him that its not fair that he (jackass) got to continually break the rules while everyone else played the right way. And as a TD he's gotta be the one to step up to the plate to back you up. BUt your group should of backed you up as well.
Sorry you had to go thru all that tho. I can imagine your pain

 

[black udder]

What a hassle. I'll continue with the applause for calling him on the infractions. When it's somebody new, playing rec or it's the occasional fault, it's not a big deal, but it sounds obvious that he was unaware of the rules completely. In order to play, you should know the rules; otherwise, why have them?

The TD should have backed you up, as well as your group.

As for not calling it, what if that guy won his division because you said nothing? The next guy played by the rules fair and square. You (and all those in your group) would be responsible for the other guy's loss because you didn't say anything to the person "cheating".

Anybody that takes that kind of attitude towards the rules doesn't need to be playing tournaments. Just go have your fun on any other day.

 

[Blake_T1]

if someone is a newb and makes chronic infractions on something i give a warning and tell them to make an effort to stop doing it or i'd call an infraction. i've never had anyone at least didn't make an effort to change.

i can also say that most people who chronically falling putt and then learn they can't do that in a tournament probably won't make a putt all day

 

[crosstrek]

I'm also glad you stood up for the rules. I thought penalties were supposed to be called within 3 seconds of the infraction, and observed by more than one player. Did the other players in the group back you up at all?

 

[Donkeypuncher1]

Wow, that's pretty bad. Even in a casual round I play the rules correctly, and I would never screw the people I play with like that. I stand behind you completely and I would willingly beat up that guy for fun, just kidding. People like that make me sick, they think they can weasel their way out of strokes being slick. I'm not he guy to confront them, but I will bring it up continually throughout the round and talk smack to them. If they cheat, I will try my best to mess up their game it's only fair. Cheaters get what they deserve and I fell no remorse for anything I do to them. I play fair, and anyone who does not deserves whatever other players decide is fair..

 

[JR]

Shit happened. I wouldn't want to play in a group that does not back up your claim. Did you ask them to? Because in the eyes of the TD it was a word against word situation and how is he to know what happened. He's like a judge. Having to make decisions based on hearsay without being there. Where's the evidence on two polar opposite statements. I'm not defending that TD at all. I'm just saying that each time I hear of this I postpone joining PDGA by a week at least. Tell that to each TD that fails to enforce rules. Effing bureaucrats. There's too much hassle in the world already. We don't need more you know what shoved down our throats while we are trying to relax and have fun. How stupid is that? It was the TDs responsibility to try to get a clear picture of the situation. He should've asked the others in your group. He might have been just inexperienced and not come up woth any good ideas though. It is everyones responsibility to help the TD to make a wise decision like by helping him investigate what happened.

As for cheaters. I'm not suggesting you do what I'd like to do and can do in this country because the likelihood of being shot in the US is real unlike here. I start by being civil and pointing out that the rules are the rules and apply to everyone. If that doesn't help nag a bit of each different mistake. If there really is no effort to correct his ways. And if that does not work call him Mr. President each times he repeats a rules infraction he's been warned of before. My thinking is that that cheater was a republican Of course always start with pointing out the rule and infraction. Having a rulebook with you helps.

There I go took politics into this mess to make even more violent. No flame proof garments needed I'm running away from this topic already

 

[eric_dmb]

I have a question:

I played in an event a few weeks ago and had some guy tell another guy in our group that he had to remove the factory sticker on the bottom of the disc. It was nearly a brand new disc and still had the Innova factory sticker on the bottom and nothing else, no other stickers.

Do you have to remove that sticker?

 

[Fritz]

I have a question:

I played in an event a few weeks ago and had some guy tell another guy in our group that he had to remove the factory sticker on the bottom of the disc. It was nearly a brand new disc and still had the Innova factory sticker on the bottom and nothing else, no other stickers.

Do you have to remove that sticker?

No because it was put there by the factory. Discraft has stickers as well that show the weights.

 

[eric_dmb]

I have a question:

I played in an event a few weeks ago and had some guy tell another guy in our group that he had to remove the factory sticker on the bottom of the disc. It was nearly a brand new disc and still had the Innova factory sticker on the bottom and nothing else, no other stickers.

Do you have to remove that sticker?

No because it was put there by the factory. Discraft has stickers as well that show the weights.

I am aware of the stickers on discs and who put them there. But this kid was ranting and raving to someone else about having it on there. I spoke up and said that I did not think he had to remove it cause it was the factory sticker. He continued but I stopped talking as it had nothing to do with me and it was obvious this kid was a rules nazi!

 

[Fritz]

I have a question:

I played in an event a few weeks ago and had some guy tell another guy in our group that he had to remove the factory sticker on the bottom of the disc. It was nearly a brand new disc and still had the Innova factory sticker on the bottom and nothing else, no other stickers.

Do you have to remove that sticker?

No because it was put there by the factory. Discraft has stickers as well that show the weights.

I am aware of the stickers on discs and who put them there. But this kid was ranting and raving to someone else about having it on there. I spoke up and said that I did not think he had to remove it cause it was the factory sticker. He continued but I stopped talking as it had nothing to do with me and it was obvious this kid was a rules nazi!

Just pull out the rule book and show him. If the factory put it there it doesn't have to be removed otherwise all the discraft discs would be "illegal"
Almost every single discraft disc I've purchased has that gold weight sticker on it.

 

[eric_dmb]

I gave my .02 on the situation and since it did not involve me, I did not push the issue..... I didn't have a rules book on me and did not feel like getting into it when it did not directly involve me. I had already spoken up and made my vote heard.

thanks for clarifying though!

 

[Fritz]

No problem Good call on the staying out of it since it didn't directly involve you. No need to get frustrated and ruin your game over something that doesn't directly involve you.

 

[Koronin]

Good job for being a 'stickler' on the rules. I played at an A-tier event last month (Seneca) and there was an incident about a disc being OB, one player claimed it was, the thrower claimed it wasn't and I broked out the rule book and verified that his disc was ok. I felt a little silly and a bit like a rules nazi by breaking out the rules book and wondered if it made me look like a poor sport.

The guy was very cool though and I enjoyed finishing the round with him.

 

[eric_dmb]

Good job for being a 'stickler' on the rules. I played at an A-tier event last month (Seneca) and there was an incident about a disc being OB, one player claimed it was, the thrower claimed it wasn't and I broked out the rule book and verified that his disc was ok. I felt a little silly and a bit like a rules nazi by breaking out the rules book and wondered if it made me look like a poor sport.

The guy was very cool though and I enjoyed finishing the round with him.

This "sticker" thing took place at Seneca.... also, did you call ME out? I had someone break out a rules book with my disc being part in bounds... my name is Eric, I am a big dude. This took place on like hole #4 I think.....

upon further review, it was me who you broke out the rule book on. No, I don't think it made you look like a poor sport at all! We had the group discuss it and I knew what the ruling was, but I always want to hear from everyone in the group!
remember the guy with the pink bag in our group? that is who called out the kid for a sticker in a different round.... (I had to play with him all 3 rounds!)

 

[mark12b]

In both of my last two tournaments there were players trying to take casual relief perpendicular to the line of play rather than on it, and I've nearly had to break out the rulebook to show them it doesn't work that way. People tend to get confused by the difference between casual relief and relief from the OB line, I guess. Both times I heard "1-meter drop, perpendicular to the line of play, but no closer to the hole". :?

 

[Koronin]

Yes, I wrote a little bit about it here: http://koronin.net/?cat=4

I initially thought I was being too harsh on the guy but someone else I played with that had him in his group felt the same way.

You did pretty good man, I was very impressed with your putting. Did you end up winning any plastic?

Good job for being a 'stickler' on the rules. I played at an A-tier event last month (Seneca) and there was an incident about a disc being OB, one player claimed it was, the thrower claimed it wasn't and I broked out the rule book and verified that his disc was ok. I felt a little silly and a bit like a rules nazi by breaking out the rules book and wondered if it made me look like a poor sport.

The guy was very cool though and I enjoyed finishing the round with him.

This "sticker" thing took place at Seneca.... also, did you call ME out? I had someone break out a rules book with my disc being part in bounds... my name is Eric, I am a big dude. This took place on like hole #4 I think.....

upon further review, it was me who you broke out the rule book on. No, I don't think it made you look like a poor sport at all! We had the group discuss it and I knew what the ruling was, but I always want to hear from everyone in the group!
remember the guy with the pink bag in our group? that is who called out the kid for a sticker in a different round.... (I had to play with him all 3 rounds!)