Turning a flat disc into a pop top

[Steve West]

... unless it makes the disc easier to find.

Where did that part come from?

 

[gstenger]

...Seems people are just trying to produce that pop top, less stable more glide from their home.

...In general, domey discs tend to have more glide and are harder to get up to speed so they tend to be more speed stable. In other words, you can turn a disc that's too flippy into a stable bomber by making it domey following these steps.

Mark996, I agree with you. In my experience, a pop top creates less stability and more glide. But the OP seems to suggest otherwise and I guess that's where my confusion came in.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Where did that part come from?

Directly from 813.01:

"Adding a device to make a disc easier to find (for example, a light, ribbon, or chalk dust) is allowed only when night or snow play has been announced by the Director."

Like many rules, it is poorly worded. However, if "chalk dust" is an example of a "device" then certainly paint, a sticker or even dye can be a considered a "device" (after all, "device" is a very broad term and need not even describe something corporeal. E.g., "literary device"). The other problem with this rule is the use of the phrase "to make," which can, but need not, imply intent. One might argue that if the intent isn't to make the disc easier to find, then a device which actually makes the disc easier to find would not violate the rule. So, if I added a flashing light, ribbon, chalk dust or beeper for visual or aural aesthetics, it would arguably not violate the rule. And after all, what disc can't be made prettier by a ribbon or two?

If the rule used the the phrase "that makes" (instead of "to make") it would be clearer. As worded, I think it would be perfectly within the discretion of the TD to disqualify any disc that has been rendered, post production, easier to find by whatever device employed and irrespective of the defense offered by the player for altering the disc.

 

[Steve West]

Directly from 813.01:

"Adding a device to make a disc ...altering the disc.

Thanks. I think it reads so that incidentally making the disc easier to find it not illegal, and only adding things to the disc is covered under the making it easier to find part.

 

[marklar]

Mark996, I agree with you. In my experience, a pop top creates less stability and more glide. But the OP seems to suggest otherwise and I guess that's where my confusion came in.

All the disc I've pop topped have had less turn.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Thanks. I think it reads so that incidentally making the disc easier to find it not illegal, and only adding things to the disc is covered under the making it easier to find part.

Right, but the problem is that it isn't clear. "To make" might mean nothing more than "that makes."

Further, anything that makes the disc easier to find might only have that effect incidentally. Anything that has that incidental effect might also have that purpose. This gives rise to an intent defense as to anything that is obviously done for the purpose of making a disc easier to find.

A clearer wording of that portion of the rule, and that conforms to your understanding, might read:

"Adding anything to a disc for the purpose of making it easier to find is allowed only when night or snow play has been announced by the Director."

On the other hand, who cares if a disc is easier to find as long as the modification or added device doesn't alter the flight characteristics? This part of the rule seems silly because it apparently prevents players from doing things that don't give them any advantage and which might speed up play and keep them from suffering the Chuck-Penalty.

 

[Steve West]

Right, but the problem is that it isn't clear. "To make" might mean nothing more than "that makes."...

I understand, and thanks for spotting it. A fix is in the works. Please PM me or start a new thread if you want to continue the discussion. No need to divert this thread even more.

 

[gstenger]

All the disc I've pop topped have had less turn.

Well, I might try to create a pop top on my flat top Boss using your method just to see what happens. Right now it's good for big hyzers, but I have other discs that fill that need. It will be interesting to see if it becomes more or less overstable with a domey top. My guess is that it will become less overstable and more of a glidey bomber.

 

[marklar]

Well, I might try to create a pop top on my flat top Boss using your method just to see what happens. Right now it's good for big hyzers, but I have other discs that fill that need. It will be interesting to see if it becomes more or less overstable with a domey top. My guess is that it will become less overstable and more of a glidey bomber.

I've only used discs that were flippy so I'm curious to see what happens. Post your results if you decide to do it.