Two questions about throwing

[robdeforge]

In the Q&A section, the PDGA says that a kick can be a throw. I've been wondering: can I drop kick the disc? i.e., release the disc (not throw it downwards) and kick it? Do I have to place the disc on my foot, and then do a kicking motion? Do I have to/can I have someone hold it football kick off style?

ALSO - what happens if you throw two discs at once? Like literally two discs stacked on top of each other.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I would say "No" to the drop kick and also to another person holding it. Placing the disc on your foot and kicking it would be okay if your other foot/stance was legal. I recall seeing a player (freestyler) loft their disc into the basket off their foot when close enough for a drop-in. I've also seen a freestyler throw a regular Frisbee well with the disc rim pinched between his toes.

I think the proper call others should make when a player throws two discs is to call both practice throws and require player to re-throw one disc as their third throw, assuming the 2-disc throw was made from the tee.

 

[philstine]

In the Q&A section, the PDGA says that a kick can be a throw. I've been wondering: can I drop kick the disc? i.e., release the disc (not throw it downwards) and kick it? Do I have to place the disc on my foot, and then do a kicking motion? Do I have to/can I have someone hold it football kick off style?

The answer is in the first sentence of QA 29:

There are no restrictions on how you throw the disc.

"No restrictions" means "no restrictions." If nothing in the mechanics of a dropkick or footbal kickoff style violates another rule, dropkicking and football kickoff throws are legal.

 

[Pwingles]

The answer is in the first sentence of QA 29:



"No restrictions" means "no restrictions." If nothing in the mechanics of a dropkick or footbal kickoff style violates another rule, dropkicking and football kickoff throws are legal.

is this being interpreted correctly tho? (serious question)
because you are essentially influencing its flight 2 times, which would be illegal otherwise right?

like, you couldnt toss a disc upward, and then punch it forward I wouldnt think

 

[roggenb3]

I've wondered these things as well bc in casual rounds I will often slide my foot under my disc and flick it into the basket. Seems legal as long as I carefully set it on my foot instead (tho that defeats the purpose of the kick which is to avoid bending over).

 

[Cgkdisc]

I've wondered these things as well bc in casual rounds I will often slide my foot under my disc and flick it into the basket. Seems legal as long as I carefully set it on my foot instead (tho that defeats the purpose of the kick which is to avoid bending over).

It wouldn't be legal even if you put a marker in front of it. The only way to do that properly would be to mark your lie and place the disc off to the side farther from the basket than your mark so you could place one foot behind your mark and then use your other foot to loft the disc from the ground or place it on that foot to loft it into the basket.

 

[JC17393]

I've wondered these things as well bc in casual rounds I will often slide my foot under my disc and flick it into the basket. Seems legal as long as I carefully set it on my foot instead (tho that defeats the purpose of the kick which is to avoid bending over).

I don't think the action of putting your foot under the disc and kicking/flicking it is illegal as a means of "throwing" the disc. But doing so without a legal mark would be a violation. Until you mark the lie with a mini, the disc on the ground is the marker. So "throwing" the disc without a mini would be a marking violation. First one is just a warning so technically you can get away with it once per round.

Also, even if you have marked it properly, you are probably still committing a stance violation as the foot doing the kicking is probably off the ground before the disc breaks contact with it, meaning there's no supporting point in contact with the lie. Either you'd have to squeeze your other foot in right behind to get it on the lie, or you'd have to shift the disc off the lie before placing your foot under it and kicking it.

All of which, as you said, defeats the purpose of kicking it in the first place, which is to avoid bending over.

 

[roggenb3]

^ Well, yeah, obviously I would have to mark it. I assumed I didn't need to explicitly say that part.

As for no points of contact on the lie - just kick with your other foot. Mark it, take a straddle putt stance and place the disc on the foot that's not behind your mini. Legal kick-putt now, right?

I've also always joked about other stupid ways to putt that would technically be legal but would look stupid.

For instance, you have a gimme (already marked), and as you walk up to it you do some jukes and dekes then get to the spot and pull up for a fade-away jumper.

 

[robdeforge]

^ Well, yeah, obviously I would have to mark it. I assumed I didn't need to explicitly say that part.

As for no points of contact on the lie - just kick with your other foot. Mark it, take a straddle putt stance and place the disc on the foot that's not behind your mini. Legal kick-putt now, right?

I've also always joked about other stupid ways to putt that would technically be legal but would look stupid.

For instance, you have a gimme (already marked), and as you walk up to it you do some jukes and dekes then get to the spot and pull up for a fade-away jumper.

I think you can get some good ideas from this video (never been able to embed YT videos here)

 

[kerplunk]

I would say "No" to the drop kick and also to another person holding it. Placing the disc on your foot and kicking it would be okay if your other foot/stance was legal. I recall seeing a player (freestyler) loft their disc into the basket off their foot when close enough for a drop-in. I've also seen a freestyler throw a regular Frisbee well with the disc rim pinched between his toes.

I think the proper call others should make when a player throws two discs is to call both practice throws and require player to re-throw one disc as their third throw, assuming the 2-disc throw was made from the tee.

is this being interpreted correctly tho? (serious question)
because you are essentially influencing its flight 2 times, which would be illegal otherwise right?

like, you couldnt toss a disc upward, and then punch it forward I wouldnt think

Let's look at it another way. If you are standing behind your lie and drop your disc on the ground, would this be considered a stroke? In most cases I would say no, especially if the disc was dropped behind the lie with no forward momentum, and didn't roll off. So if your kicking foot is behind your lie, and you drop the disc down to your kicking foot, why should that be considered an additional stroke? Assuming your other foot is in the correct position behind your marker.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Let's look at it another way. If you are standing behind your lie and drop your disc on the ground, would this be considered a stroke? In most cases I would say no, especially if the disc was dropped behind the lie with no forward momentum, and didn't roll off. So if your kicking foot is behind your lie, and you drop the disc down to your kicking foot, why should that be considered an additional stroke? Assuming your other foot is in the correct position behind your marker.

Intent to make a throw is part of the rule that determines whether a drop is a throw or not. If you drop the disc and then kick it, you can't argue the drop was unintentional in the same way a disc knocked out of your hand on a back swing would be a drop.

 

[Dan Ensor]

is this being interpreted correctly tho? (serious question)
because you are essentially influencing its flight 2 times, which would be illegal otherwise right?

like, you couldnt toss a disc upward, and then punch it forward I wouldnt think

I see people do it all the time, actually (well ... not punch it). The amount of time from tossing it upward and having control of the disc shouldn't matter. In many people's warm-up, they'll spin the disc and let go of it momentarily.

 

[Steve West]

Intent to make a throw is part of the rule that determines whether a drop is a throw or not. If you drop the disc and then kick it, you can't argue the drop was unintentional in the same way a disc knocked out of your hand on a back swing would be a drop.

Could you find the "intent" part of the rule and quote it for us?

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I think that if someone drop-kicked their disc I believe that it shouldn't be a stance/throw violation based on the uniqueness and practice effort required to throw. On a side note, at my league round yesterday a buddy of mine and I were doing so badly we try to see who could shoot the worst score. By hole 10 I was only throwing my flattop FB mostly for roller practice. On the last hole I was about 8' out so someone said something about using your foot to throw, so I took off my shoe and sock, placed the rim between my big toe and sexond toe and threw the disc, which I then repeated to drop in for a 5.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Could you find the "intent" part of the rule and quote it for us?

Sure.
QA 12: Is a Drop a Throw?
Q: My throwing hand bumped a tree branch during my backswing, knocking the disc to the ground, and the disc rolled forward of my lie. Was that a throw?
A: No. The throw begins when movement of the disc in the intended direction begins. A disc dropped or knocked out before or during a backswing does not count as a throw. Applicable Rules: 800.02 Definitions ("Throw").

 

[kerplunk]

Intent to make a throw is part of the rule that determines whether a drop is a throw or not. If you drop the disc and then kick it, you can't argue the drop was unintentional in the same way a disc knocked out of your hand on a back swing would be a drop.

So is one not allowed to pass the disc from one hand to the other? Or do the spin of the disc mentioned? I would argue that the drop is just a way to get the disc to the foot, no different from tossing it from one hand to the other. Although I guess that could fall under freestyling and thus also be illegal.

 

[philstine]

I think that if someone drop-kicked their disc I believe that it shouldn't be a stance/throw violation based on the uniqueness and practice effort required to throw.

Uniqueness and/or practice effort should play no role in determing whether or not a stance or throw violation has occurred: either it complies with ALL the stance and throw requirements or it's a violation. Otherwise, every tournament I play in, when it's my turn to tee, I'm going saunter down the fairway, drop my disc in the basket, and card a 1on every hole because my walk—the rhythm and gait—is, by definition, unique to me, and I've practiced it every day for going on 56 years.

 

[JoakimBL]

I understand that this is a theoretical discussion about the throwing rule, but to me this seems so hypothetical to be irrelevant. I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would do this in sanctioned play. That out of the way:

The throw begins when movement in the intended direction begins. That means that if you don't move your arm forward when dropping the disc to do your dropkick, the throw hasn't started. So dropkick is fine. But just to reiterate? Why is anyone asking this question to begin with?

 

[robdeforge]

I understand that this is a theoretical discussion about the throwing rule, but to me this seems so hypothetical to be irrelevant. I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would do this in sanctioned play. That out of the way:

The throw begins when movement in the intended direction begins. That means that if you don't move your arm forward when dropping the disc to do your dropkick, the throw hasn't started. So dropkick is fine. But just to reiterate? Why is anyone asking this question to begin with?

Mainly just for my curiosity! I like knowing the rules to the extent I can and I've always been curious about the kicking stuff, especially as it was specifically mentioned in the Q&A section. Plus if I'm ever way far ahead or way far behind in a tourney or sanctioned round I might just have to pull out a kick move.