Understability Really Two Things?

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I know what understable is in discs, or at least I thought I did, until I got my hands on a Westside Hatchet. The Innova ratings on the disc are 9,6,-2,2, pretty standard except maybe for the 6 glide, which is a little rare. But this disc does something better than any other disc I've thrown - it goes to the right when thrown flat (RHBH). I know what you're thinking: of course it goes right, dumbass, it's understable. But here's the thing, most understable discs go right by turning over, or tipping in that direction during the HST portion of flight, then they flatten out and come back left to varying degrees for LSF, creating the familiar s-curve of understable discs. But the Hatchet doesn't tip in an anhyzer angle during HST - I throw it flat and it just follows a long curve to the right, staying flat all the time. If I don't have enough spin on it, or I throw it too high, it will still fade to the left at the end (though the 2 fade rating is a bit high for this disc in my opinion, 1.5 or 1 would fit better). I don't think I've ever seen this tendency to turn right without turning over before. It's observations like this that make me think there's factors in disc flight I'm not fully aware of. We've pretty much accepted gyroscopic precession as the force that pushes discs to the right, but there are other forces at work that have more or less influence on flight depending on the stage and competing forcess. For example, the left side of a clockwise-spinning disc, because it's rotating in the direction of flight has more drag than the right side of the disc does. (I still think this is at least a factor in the left fade at the end of flight, if not the entire reason.) In the case of the Hatchet, I wonder if the 6 glide isn't affecting the 'flat' right turn. Does glide mean a disc has some modicum of aerodynamic stability apart from that caused by gyroscopic stability? Maybe that's why they glide so well? Could explain a flatter right turn maybe. Anyway, does someone have some insight into why an understable disc would insist on going to the right without tipping that way even a little bit?

 

[sidewinder22]

Bring a calculator.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

At least you don't post something asinine like a grown man throwing a hammer, Sidewinder.

 

[BrotherDave]

The wind is blowing in that direction?

 

[sidewinder22]

The wind is blowing in that direction?

The hot air is definitely blowing over there.

 

[Consult20]

Not sure what the OP is saying, but I get a flat right turn on us discs, even my seasoned star boss gets some great flat right turn -- it's my favorite disc to throw when there's enough room to the right.

 

[Teamkiller]

I think I get flat HST on calm days and the anny HST when the wind catches one of the edges, my mamba and river will both stay on a flat HST for a good while too.

 

[Will Burke]

Not sure but I would guess it has to do with lower pressure on right side of discs since air is moving faster on that side. Since liquids move from high to low pressure the discs gets pushed by air?

 

[wreckreation]

As a fellow thrower of the magical hatchet, I do get the flight you are speaking of sometimes, with some hatchets, but as they beat in you will notice that they will start to tilt more and head right harder just like any understable disc. Your hatchet is tilting, just not enough to notice. Because its shape allows for high glide (delayed fade) it can hold the micro anny for a long time where most discs would come out sooner. Another disc that does this well for me is a seasoned classic cobra.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Your hatchet is tilting, just not enough to notice.

:clap:

 

[mbntheman]

I get that flight with my Valk (similar flight rating). I had a VIP hatchet that flew like that, got a tp hatchet that is stable (very little right). Just a reminder, no 2 discs fly the same, lol

 

[DamonRipper]

Bring a calculator.

lol ... the ending was great, I was wondering if he might actually pull off a decent throw

 

[ThrowBot]

Your hatchet is tilting, just not enough to notice.

^ Yup

 

[clard]

If I don't have enough spin on it, or I throw it too high, it will still fade to the left at the end...

How do you know how much spin you put on it?

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

I throw it flat and it just follows a long curve to the right, staying flat all the time.

Another thing that is can happen is that the disc turns and then flattens out and flies straight. Because its direction has changed, you perceive it to be curving when it really is not, its just flying rightward of the path you expect. This explains a steady "drift" to the right before the fade sets in.

We've pretty much accepted gyroscopic precession as the force that pushes discs to the right, but there are other forces at work that have more or less influence on flight depending on the stage and competing forcess. For example, the left side of a clockwise-spinning disc, because it's rotating in the direction of flight has more drag than the right side of the disc does. (I still think this is at least a factor in the left fade at the end of flight, if not the entire reason.)

The loss of speed, leading to the loss of lift, leading to the change in angle of attack, leading to the movement forward of the center of lift along with Gyroscopic precession explains fade completely enough. Whatever additional drag is on the left side of the disc due to spin should be higher at the beginning of flight than at the end and is surely miniscule at all times.

 

[Atvizory2000]

Bring a calculator.

Dudes videos are the best! Wish he'd start making more.

 

[wreckreation]

Another thing that is can happen is that the disc turns and then flattens out and flies straight. Because its direction has changed, you perceive it to be curving when it really is not, its just flying rightward of the path.

Heh, I almost added this in my reply, but got tired of phone typing. But yeah I think it's a combo of imperceptible tilt, then flattening out, then lots of glide / delayed fade

 

[sidewinder22]

Another thing that is can happen is that the disc turns and then flattens out and flies straight. Because its direction has changed, you perceive it to be curving when it really is not, its just flying rightward of the path you expect. This explains a steady "drift" to the right before the fade sets in.



The loss of speed, leading to the loss of lift, leading to the change in angle of attack, leading to the movement forward of the center of lift along with Gyroscopic precession explains fade completely enough. Whatever additional drag is on the left side of the disc due to spin should be higher at the beginning of flight than at the end and is surely miniscule at all times.

Yep, procession explains fade. Not turn as the OP stated. Lift is forcing the disc up and procession torques the disc 90 degrees to the left (RHBH). High speed turn happens because of... wait for it...high speed! That tilts or rolls the disc.

Also the Bernoulli effect can't tell if the disc is spinning, it only sees the whole disc as a singular wing.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Yep, procession explains fade. Not turn as the OP stated.

It explains both. Turn and fade are just reactions to the location of the center of lift in relation to the rotational axis. Move the center of lift behind the axis and you get turn, move it forward of the axis and you get fade.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

How do you know how much spin you put on it?

Especially with midrange and slower speed drivers I'm very conscious of spin. I adjust wrist angle and how much snap there is by pinching harder or lighter at release. If I absolutely need it to hold a line, especially one it fights against, more spin is needed for gyroscopic stability to win out. On the other end of the spectrum, if I want to take advantage of the discs natural flight characteristicds, I dial back snap and spin by moving my hand position less around the disc and pinching less.