Unification Theory

[HyzerUniBomber]

Hey guys, I've been trying to bring together a few of our well known drills into a relatively (har har) easy few steps that could use some self-correcting movements to help players make the quantum (ohhh really) jump in form fixing.

I'm putting together an article that will hopefully go out in the not so distant future, so I'd love to get some feedback on if there's anything confusing that should be addressed.

I know that off-arm stuff is considered a bit of an upper-level elective, but even if you can just get the off arm in on the right side of the leverage - it seems to make a nice difference.

 

[lucasgg]

Looking forward to this. I'm honestly expecting content of usable quality in the Critic Section. Thanks in advance!

 

[RFrance]

HUB, another good video for bringing the concepts together. For some reason, being stacked finally clicked for me last week when you posted (#67) on slowplastic's thread (~400' BH and ~325' FH Help) http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122316&page=2 and then SW linked again to Shawn Clement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-douOneC40#t=3m15s about the weight bar. Before that, I thought I understood being stacked but I was still tipping on the back swing. Now I get it. :doh:

I'm not quite ready to work on the timing yet for the swim move. But what I have started doing since you mentioned the swim move in another post was to move my left hand over to my right hip front pocket before my back swing and leave it there as much as possible. I think this is helping me get a better elbow extension.

 

[slowplastic]

I like a lot of this, especially showing people how to stay stacked during reachback, and also getting that off arm forward so you can swing from the shifted position is very important. The only thing I feel this doesn't address is the tilted spiral aspect...being stacked inside the stance is very important but the torso will be tilted over the toes ever so slightly, and on power throws the body may be tilted forward (but still properly braced). Of course adding this aspect in really really complicates things so I don't know what the best direction to go with it would be.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I like a lot of this, especially showing people how to stay stacked during reachback, and also getting that off arm forward so you can swing from the shifted position is very important. The only thing I feel this doesn't address is the tilted spiral aspect...being stacked inside the stance is very important but the torso will be tilted over the toes ever so slightly, and on power throws the body may be tilted forward (but still properly braced). Of course adding this aspect in really really complicates things so I don't know what the best direction to go with it would be.

Right now, I'm of the opinion that the 1-leg drill does the majority of the work of the tilted spiral. You have to be over the knee to complete that motion, and since you've got the back foot on the toes or off the ground, you won't be leaving anything on the back leg. To come through and remain rotating on an axis, you have to be conformed to that physical shape... I think... I could be wrong (it's happened before).

I personally can't get myself upright and non-tilted and brace weight in the 1-foot drill... I can with 2 feet on the ground, but once you take all the weight off the back foot it seems to self correct really well.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah I agree with that...I guess the part I was thinking of is showing how you can support the weight in a stacked position while shifting forward and back. At a certain point in the tilted spiral that weight would crush you down to the ground onto your chest past your front foot, even though you are in good body positions, correct? At the same time though, this is into the follow through stage and one of those things that "just works out" if you've done the other stuff correctly (ending up in the balanced forward position).

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Yeah I agree with that...I guess the part I was thinking of is showing how you can support the weight in a stacked position while shifting forward and back. At a certain point in the tilted spiral that weight would crush you down to the ground onto your chest past your front foot, even though you are in good body positions, correct? At the same time though, this is into the follow through stage and one of those things that "just works out" if you've done the other stuff correctly (ending up in the balanced forward position).

Let's watch this first - so we're both on the same page with talking about the tilted spiral.

My take away of Clement's discussion about this, is that for a disc golfer - we have to stack the knee and nose over the toes. By stacking that profile, the upper body has to tilt forward if you want to be able to do the 1-leg drill. By shifting so that your back foot drags forward and not out to your left, we create that back-side counterbalance that lets the upper body come through and not get crushed to the ground.

Typically I think of the tilted spiral idea as coming into play when a thrower is not stacking toes, knee, head and so they don't get the upper body coming through.

So as you say, I think setting those 2 main fundamentals in motion (regardless of power) the tilted spiral SHOULD be a consequence.

 

[slowplastic]

My potential concern is for someone who is not aware of the tilted spiral aspect, and at ~3:00 you are showing how to turn back and forward while shouldering the weight in posture. If someone ends up at the hit or after the hit in that nose over front toes tilted forward (but in balance) position, they would have a hard time shouldering the weight still...and if this has the potential to lead someone to thinking that this is an incorrect way to throw because of it.

I agree that the one foot drill inherently will allow people to stay braced and end up in that forward position correctly, and that the hip turn while shouldering the weight is a great way to stay in balance...I just also know that different little things stick in peoples' heads and can lead them to not trying something a slightly different way. I'm not saying your video is skipping any steps or anything like that, it's more that one aspect may lead people to not allowing the tilt feeling if they over emphasize the upright stacked points. Another part of it is that I don't fully understand why some top players end up in a very tilted finish (Schusterick), and some end up in a more stacked finish with a "rise" end to the throw (McBeth, Jarvis).

 

[sidewinder22]

At a certain point in the tilted spiral that weight would crush you down to the ground onto your chest past your front foot, even though you are in good body positions, correct?

Not dynamically. If your foot/leg support gave out, you should fall on your butt or rear shoulder.

My potential concern is for someone who is not aware of the tilted spiral aspect, and at ~3:00 you are showing how to turn back and forward while shouldering the weight in posture. If someone ends up at the hit or after the hit in that nose over front toes tilted forward (but in balance) position, they would have a hard time shouldering the weight still...and if this has the potential to lead someone to thinking that this is an incorrect way to throw because of it.

Should always feel like you can shoulder it from start through finish. Think dynamic motion and balance, not static positions and balance.

I agree that the one foot drill inherently will allow people to stay braced and end up in that forward position correctly, and that the hip turn while shouldering the weight is a great way to stay in balance...I just also know that different little things stick in peoples' heads and can lead them to not trying something a slightly different way. I'm not saying your video is skipping any steps or anything like that, it's more that one aspect may lead people to not allowing the tilt feeling if they over emphasize the upright stacked points. Another part of it is that I don't fully understand why some top players end up in a very tilted finish (Schusterick), and some end up in a more stacked finish with a "rise" end to the throw (McBeth, Jarvis).

Schusterick clears his front hip further back, so he is "rising" or straightening the front leg but it's angled harder so it doesn't rise up as much. It's all the same move and principles.

 

[slowplastic]

That makes much more sense.

 

[flowinowen]

I have a question about adding the first and second drills - shifting with the hips - into the last explosion step of a throw. I've been working with this drill for a while now, but seem to go back to my old ways when applying in the field (in my final explosion step, I'm essentially pushing off my back foot as I rotate, causing my weight to be at my right front foot as I step down, causing me to tip forward out of a nice power posture). Is applying this drill to a one step something you will be addressing in future articles/videos?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I have a question about adding the first and second drills - shifting with the hips - into the last explosion step of a throw. I've been working with this drill for a while now, but seem to go back to my old ways when applying in the field (in my final explosion step, I'm essentially pushing off my back foot as I rotate, causing my weight to be at my right front foot as I step down, causing me to tip forward out of a nice power posture). Is applying this drill to a one step something you will be addressing in future articles/videos?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, so please stick with me: this is a 1-step style throw. The 1-step is just striding the plant foot forward and into the plant.

If you are are still tipping over, grab that hockey stick and shoulder the "weight" and get the feel for shifting forward with in stacked so that you can stay upright with it.

 

[flowinowen]

Sorry for not being clear - I'll try the hockey stick to see if that helps.