Val drops Innova?

[DanJon]

Private companies are allowed to make their own business decisions, regardless if you agree with them.

Just as individuals are free to make theirs.

We can form our own opinions on how they handle things (I clearly do) and I think Val handled this pretty well.

Disc golf pros generally don't bring in a ton of revenue for their respective sponsors.

Remember they are basically acting as sales people/spokesperson for the brand.

If they aren't bringing in revenue then it's simply a business decision.

I've had to terminate people who were friends because they just weren't doing the job that they were hired for.

Guess what, we are still friends because they understand the distinction between business and personal relationships.

Disc golf sponsorship isn't charity after all

And it's all well and good to complain about your contracts and lack of support, but these people are agreeing to the terms of the contract when they sign them.

 

[Todd@InfiniteDiscs]

The way I see it, she made a decision based on experiences that only she knows and understands completely. She can try to explain her position publicly (though she doesn't need to), but even with that being done, we don't have the firsthand experiences and impressions that ultimately took her to this decision.

As far as women in disc golf goes, I know that they are a minority in the sport, but they will stay that way until champions, like Valarie, work together within the game and the disc golf industry to raise the standard. Change will come with those valuable efforts, for which she should be applauded.

I personally have a 12-year-old daughter who started playing disc golf with me last summer. She stuck with it through several trips to the course even though she feels like she is "terrible" because the only comparison she has is myself and her oldest brother who have played for years and have a feel for the game. She could one day play wonderfully, but she lacks the kind of female mentor and local example that could lift her confidence and make her believe the she can be great. If there were more women out on the course, playing with joy and throwing great shots, I'm certain my daughter would look to them as motivation, more than she looks at her old dad who she believes she'll never be able to match (an incorrect assumption).

We all want and need #MoreWomenDiscGolfers

 

[corin_brown]

Yes val should have been better compensated.

You see, this is what would help to illuminate the discussion - facts.

So how much did Innova pay her and how does that figure compare to other men & women pros?

 

[SD86]

Cat looks good but I tune in to watch the disc golf, ya kow...).

That should be "ya know"; didn't get to the editor in time...

 

[Keller]

It'd be nice if we knew more, but until we do, it's all good speculation.

Very true.

As a grand master player, I would love to see more footage and attention paid to masters and grand masters, but in reality, no one cares about old players either.

Such is life. I used to care but, things have changed.

 

[Jay Dub]

This is easy to say when you aren't running the business.

Exactly. Everyone is in business for the same reason, to make money.

If you disagree then tell your boss the next 40 hours are on you, work for free because you think it's the right thing to do.

Good luck to Val.

 

[SD86]

She could one day play wonderfully, but she lacks the kind of female mentor and local example that could lift her confidence and make her believe the she can be great. If there were more women out on the course, playing with joy and throwing great shots, I'm certain my daughter would look to them as motivation, more than she looks at her old dad who she believes she'll never be able to match (an incorrect assumption).

We all want and need #MoreWomenDiscGolfers

It's similar to tournament chess. There are very few women. There are girls at the elementary school level that play chess; they generally give it up as soon as they get to high school, for various reasons. It's tough to get women to play chess; many don't like it, many that do are intimidated when they're the only woman in a tournament with 99 guys. What's the answer, for chess or disc golf? What you said above is great, theoretically. Then comes the practice, the reality, and it's not so easy.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm a little bit curious as to

(1) What, exactly, she thinks Innova should have done, but didn't, and

(2) That she will be able to better do outside of Innova, or sponsorship.

There may be a real good answer. And perhaps we'll hear it. But the statement is rather vague.

But only mildly curious.

 

[Emoney]

Very true.

As a grand master player, I would love to see more footage and attention paid to masters and grand masters, but in reality, no one cares about old players either.

Such is life. I used to care but, things have changed.

BLASPHEMY! Everyone should be watching the OG's. I love watching Barry Schultz play. So smooth.....

 

[Keller]

BLASPHEMY! Everyone should be watching the OG's. I love watching Barry Schultz play. So smooth.....

Me too!:thmbup:

 

[SD86]

Very true.

As a grand master player, I would love to see more footage and attention paid to masters and grand masters, but in reality, no one cares about old players either.

Such is life. I used to care but, things have changed.

I watch Masters videos on Youtube if I can find them. Then again... I'll watch just about ANY disc golf on video when I find it...

 

[phrumphkin]

I'm a little bit curious as to

(1) What, exactly, she thinks Innova should have done, but didn't, and

(2) That she will be able to better do outside of Innova, or sponsorship.

There may be a real good answer. And perhaps we'll hear it. But the statement is rather vague.

But only mildly curious.

Maybe she's planning to transition to less and less touring, and increasing her focus on the brewery biz.. So she could have seen this as a good time to make a statement about the status of women's DG knowing that being un-sponsored wouldn't affect her much at this point?

 

[corin_brown]

He made a business decision-why read more into it than that?

Lots of people read more into his "business decision" because when he attempted to publicly justify his exclusion of an FPO division, beyond admitting his inability to afford it or unwillingness to pay for it - either way, an embarrassing PR disaster - he clumsily tried to sell everyone who was watching and listening on the idea that "one division, one champion" was somehow a more preferable competition for women pros.

Putting aside the vintage unfairness of forcing a woman pro to choose between competing against men or not to compete at all, a concept so retrograde that it was put to rest with Babe Didrikson in the 1940's, that he presumed to explain to women pros that "one division, on champion" and not a dedicated FPO division was in their best interest, could not have been any more condescending.

And is there not a women's division in the DGWT this year?

Yup. Much to his chagrin, I'm sure. He probably doesn't want to deal with all the grief "one division, one champion" brought him last year.

The irony, of course, is that if he just said last year, "hey, it's a business decision, we can't afford it right now" and left it at that, he probably could have avoided paying the women pros for a few more years. Bummer for him.

 

[loki the trickster]

Maybe she's planning to transition to less and less touring, and increasing her focus on the brewery biz.. So she could have seen this as a good time to make a statement about the status of women's DG knowing that being un-sponsored wouldn't affect her much at this point?

I said something similar on the pros switching 2017. It definitely makes sense.

 

[DavidSauls]

Maybe she's planning to transition to less and less touring, and increasing her focus on the brewery biz.. So she could have seen this as a good time to make a statement about the status of women's DG knowing that being un-sponsored wouldn't affect her much at this point?

I'm not clear what the actual statement is.

I suppose we'll find out.

 

[DanJon]

Did the USDGC get as much grief about the one division, one champion deal?

You know that's where it's borrowed from right?

Besides that, should a private business (Innova) be expected to subsidize the female pro side of the sport?

They already subsidize so much in the pro disc golf world as it is.

Besides that, it seems that the DGWT was intended as a business model for bringing in outside funding, by showcasing the best of the best.

Perhaps after receiving outside funding, they would have been able to subsidize the female side.

Look at Pro Skateboarding or Snowboarding, years ago there were barely any female pros.

Until outside money came in.

That allowed certain companies to start investing in the female side of the sport which eventually lead to more female involvement in general.

Sometimes it's a long term game.

 

[Finny]

My (eventual) take from the 2017 sponsors thread is that no one besides McBeth actually moves the needle. So the "it's a business" take doesn't make much sense if Innova was supporting Val below the level of Sexton or Jerm. Giving them more money than her would have the same effect in sales: almost none. The only justification is "We just value men more, for no particular reason."

 

[DanJon]

My (eventual) take from the 2017 sponsors thread is that no one besides McBeth actually moves the needle. So the "it's a business" take doesn't make much sense if Innova was supporting Val below the level of Sexton or Jerm. Giving them more money than her would have the same effect in sales: almost none. The only justification is "We just value men more, for no particular reason."

Have you seen the sales of Sexton Firebirds?

Do you understand simple economics?

They offered Sexton the potential for more money.

If his discs didn't sell, he most likely wouldn't have gotten another run.

Plus Jerm was just signed.

 

[Finny]

Have you seen the sales of Sexton Firebirds?

Do you understand simple economics?

They offered Sexton the potential for more money.

If his discs didn't sell, he most likely wouldn't have gotten another run.

Plus Jerm was just signed.

I do understand simple economics. If you have Innova sales figures, I'd love to see them. Appreciated.

 

[DanJon]

Sorry, I just meant that Sexton wasn't necessarily just offered a paycheck.

He was offered the potential for money based on his tour series discs selling well.

Considering they made multiple runs of Sexton Firebirds, they must have been selling pretty well.

With that said I think Innova should have offered the Star Tern to Val as a tour series disc.

If it sold well, they could have then made it a full on signature disc for her, which would have meant more potential income for her.