What are the benefits of a runup?

[Nasty Nate]

http://www.innovadiscs.com/home/daves-tips/daves-driving-tips.html

Dave Dunipace says very little momentum is necessary and can be counter productive. IE. Reaching back with the disc or a long run up. Finishing is much more important.

I liken driving to the One Inch Punch. You don't need to load a huge punch in order to create energy. It all comes from proper alignment and knowing how to explode at the right moment. Having a huge reach-back and run-up might work for some people but I have found that it just screws up my shots completely. I always take one step with my left foot and then cross over my right to x-step so I always know my rhythm and never trip up my feet.

I don't throw extremely far (although I have been improving my distance) but I have always had trouble with my drives. I am always working on my form and I think it helps to keep consistent in your routine instead of always trying something different and never really mastering one approach.

Edit: ^^also I don't think I have ever been throwing nose-down, so that is something I will have to try. I think my nose-down throws have just gone into the ground

 

[DiscinFiend]

http://www.innovadiscs.com/home/daves-tips/daves-driving-tips.html

Dave Dunipace says very little momentum is necessary and can be counter productive. IE. Reaching back with the disc or a long run up. Finishing is much more important.

I liken driving to the One Inch Punch. You don't need to load a huge punch in order to create energy. It all comes from proper alignment and knowing how to explode at the right moment. Having a huge reach-back and run-up might work for some people but I have found that it just screws up my shots completely. I always take one step with my left foot and then cross over my right to x-step so I always know my rhythm and never trip up my feet.

I don't throw extremely far (although I have been improving my distance) but I have always had trouble with my drives. I am always working on my form and I think it helps to keep consistent in your routine instead of always trying something different and never really mastering one approach.

Edit: ^^also I don't think I have ever been throwing nose-down, so that is something I will have to try. I think my nose-down throws have just gone into the ground

I'm not saying you or Dave Dunipace is wrong but Dave is known to be little off his rocker sometimes. Depending on the type of thrower a person is having a big backswing can be counterproductive. As I understand it there's a few main types of backhand throwers, people who throw with snap predominately & those who use more arm speed & momentum (a bigger backswing helps with that), & those who use a blend of those two styles. People who use mostly snap still need a backswing (even if it isn't that big of one) & people with a big backswing still have snap in their throw. The key is to find out what kind of style works best for you. You can gain snap (though it isn't that easy to do) by doing the hammer pound & Dan Beto's right peck drill many times. I know I'm a player who doesn't have a ton of snap so I use a Feldberg pendulum style backswing, which works great for me. I highly recommend taking look at the links I've posted they've helped me out a lot. DGR has some great articles written by Blake Takkunen that are chalked full of helpful tips & detailed insight into the backhand throw, snap ect.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/mored.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220

 

[rphancock1]

As I understand it there's a few main types of backhand throwers, people who throw with snap predominately & those who use more arm speed & momentum (a bigger backswing helps with that), & those who use a blend of those two styles. People who use mostly snap still need a backswing (even if it isn't that big of one) & people with a big backswing still have snap in their throw. The key is to find out what kind of style works best for you. You can gain snap (though it isn't that easy to do) by doing the hammer pound & Dan Beto's right peck drill many times. I know I'm a player who doesn't have a ton of snap so I use a Feldberg pendulum style backswing, which works great for me. I highly recommend taking look at the links I've posted they've helped me out a lot. DGR has some great articles written by Blake Takkunen that are chalked full of helpful tips & detailed insight into the backhand throw, snap ect.

Yes, I've read all those, and re-read them every time some part of the throw clicks and I understand more what he's talking about. My throw is basically the right pec drill with a slightly longer reach back. I've also read Blake and Dave talk about the bent elbow technique, and the relative unimportance of a backswing, but Blake also says it doesn't necessarily hinder you either. It just may not be necessary as it's possible to throw just as far or farther without it.

 

[Nasty Nate]

I'm not saying you or Dave Dunipace is wrong but Dave is known to be little off his rocker sometimes. Depending on the type of thrower a person is having a big backswing can be counterproductive. As I understand it there's a few main types of backhand throwers, people who throw with snap predominately & those who use more arm speed & momentum (a bigger backswing helps with that), & those who use a blend of those two styles. People who use mostly snap still need a backswing (even if it isn't that big of one) & people with a big backswing still have snap in their throw. The key is to find out what kind of style works best for you. You can gain snap (though it isn't that easy to do) by doing the hammer pound & Dan Beto's right peck drill many times. I know I'm a player who doesn't have a ton of snap so I use a Feldberg pendulum style backswing, which works great for me. I highly recommend taking look at the links I've posted they've helped me out a lot. DGR has some great articles written by Blake Takkunen that are chalked full of helpful tips & detailed insight into the backhand throw, snap ect.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/mored.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220

Awesome. Thanks, dude. I'll definitely check out those links but right now I am about to go disc golfing . Honestly I think driving is the hardest part of the game and I've always kind of struggled with it. I guess we'll see how I play here in a few minutes...

 

[sneakytiki]

I'm not saying you or Dave Dunipace is wrong but Dave is known to be little off his rocker sometimes. Depending on the type of thrower a person is having a big backswing can be counterproductive. As I understand it there's a few main types of backhand throwers, people who throw with snap predominately & those who use more arm speed & momentum (a bigger backswing helps with that), & those who use a blend of those two styles. People who use mostly snap still need a backswing (even if it isn't that big of one) & people with a big backswing still have snap in their throw. The key is to find out what kind of style works best for you. You can gain snap (though it isn't that easy to do) by doing the hammer pound & Dan Beto's right peck drill many times. I know I'm a player who doesn't have a ton of snap so I use a Feldberg pendulum style backswing, which works great for me. I highly recommend taking look at the links I've posted they've helped me out a lot. DGR has some great articles written by Blake Takkunen that are chalked full of helpful tips & detailed insight into the backhand throw, snap ect.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/mored.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220

In one of his articles Blake mentions that how quickly a disc flips to flat on a hyzer flip release is a good indicator of how much snap you are getting. The quicker it flips, the more snap you have. More snap, more spin, more stable. Always thought that was a good indicator, for anyone wondering "Do I has snaps?"

 

[DrumPhil65]

Like the others have said, you are developing a good foundation by building your form from a standing throw. When you're in a troble spot with no possible footwork, you'll appreciate having a good standstill shot that you can depend on.

But the previous poster's point about snap is very important. I'm a fairly new player (1 year), and as my snap has improved I'm seeing:
- longer distance
- more glide, so shots require less effort
- straighter flight, so better accuracy
- each type of disc flying more like it is designed to
- more consistent shots that I can depend on.

Dave Feldberg's towel snap drill is a good way to build snap.

How does this relate to your OP? It is possible to get decent snap on a standing shot, but I find it easier to get snap with slow to moderate footwork ("walk-up"). I think the built-in timing and rhythm of the footwork is what helps me. A controlled run-up helps me maintain a form that gives good snap - which leads to good results.

If you can develop more snap and incorporate it into a standstill shot, that might provide the improvements you are looking for. A standing delivery has less actions to go wrong than throwing with a run-up; maybe you don't need a run-up. Try developing your snap first, and see if you like the results.

Have fun with it!

 

[KniceZ]

+1 - it's mainly for hip rotation and timing

It seems that the X step certainly helps more advance players get distance but so does a running 360 throw but I don't see very many players using that out on the course. For a lot of beginners the run/walk-up X-step just adds complexity and confusion and leads to less accuracy for very little added distance.

My bottom-line - In the long run it will help with hip rotation and timing but in the beginning the benefit may not be worth it.

 

[rphancock1]

I've been focusing the past couple of weeks on accelerating through the hit.. Holding the speed back at the beginning of weight shift, hip shoulder rotation, and then from right pec/shoulder pause/elbow chop pulling fast and pinching right at the end. When all this works without me having to think too much (and if I keep my head down, basically watching the disc pass my torso) then yeah, it snaps like hell and in a new way from anything I've thrown before. Striker, Flow, Stag, villain all flip up very fast from a slight hyzer release and glide forever. That's new for me.

The big problem is "when all this works". That's where I'm stuck, and why I ask about the benefit of a run/walk/x step. Sounds from everyone like one of the benefits is added consistency, so I'll definitely work on it.

 

[knettles]

Forgive me.

Benefits of a runup for the average chucker:
1. It alerts the local fauna to the presence of danger---your throws.
2. It terrifies young children and the Father-Knows-Best familial type, keeping spectating to a minimum.
3. It creates nausea, disorientation and a fear of the unknown among your competitors.
4. It has been cited as evidence for decreasing park budgets and closing park DGCs.
5. It has a fatwa against it.

Now THAT'S a troll.

Though in all seriousness, SLOW runups[almost walkups] are the way to go.

The whole post, funny, and that one line a very good point. Since I slowed down my runup I've improved all around. I actually had a guy comment the other day about how weird my throw looked. I've got three slow steps, a slow pull through that just speeds up at the end, and out pops the disc.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Totally agree about funny post and slow is good - there's simply no need to be aggressive in one's run-up. If anything, it just enhances your chances of slipping or some other mishap.

An old Jedi once said "Slow leads to smooth, smooth leads to far, far leads to the dark side..."

 

[Kenny53691]

The only benefit I feel I get from a run-up is allowing me to set the rhythm of my throw, and to load my hips more from the x-step.

About the same here!

 

[fountg]

I feel like when I do a full run up I end up releasing late and throwing wayyyy off to the right. Something about the timing, idk. 90% of my drives are an X-step pattern of 1 slow step then a quicker X-step. During the quicker X-step I will pivot my hips away and then rip all the way around and through. But it all ends up just being 2-3 steps.

 

[Dan Ensor]

In one of his articles Blake mentions that how quickly a disc flips to flat on a hyzer flip release is a good indicator of how much snap you are getting. The quicker it flips, the more snap you have. More snap, more spin, more stable. Always thought that was a good indicator, for anyone wondering "Do I has snaps?"

I don't think that's right; at least it's not what you made me think of.

Somewhere, Blake says something like "If you want to know if your throw is snap dominated or speed dominated, look at the flight. If it flips right out of your hand, you're speed dominated; if the flip is delayed, you're snap dominated."

I think I'm right ... it's been a while since I've read it.

 

[DiscFifty]

Who and why did someone first call this a "run" up? It really is more like a walk up, or at the least a "slow speed up". When I see young players literally taking 7 steps and running at first it's a bit comical, most seem to do a "stutter step" dance, etc, etc. There is no doubt they would throw farther, expend less energy if they took fewer steps, slowed down, etc, etc. I've had a chance to see several local pros and all of them start very slowly in their walk up and right before the last step, that's when the take off (acceleration) happens.

I only use the x-step for max d. Other wise it's a combination of single step and stand still throws. Like others have said, the more accuracy needed, the less I move.

 

[Nasty Nate]

So more snap comes from bending/loading your wrist more on your setup? I used to throw like that but have been doing it a bit less after reading a bunch of different dg stuff. This is probably the missing link in my throws right now...

 

[sneakytiki]

I don't think that's right; at least it's not what you made me think of.

Somewhere, Blake says something like "If you want to know if your throw is snap dominated or speed dominated, look at the flight. If it flips right out of your hand, you're speed dominated; if the flip is delayed, you're snap dominated."

I think I'm right ... it's been a while since I've read it.

Ok, yes, I guess I should have said its an indicator of your snap to speed ratio, rather than a measure of snap. But if you increase your snap without changing the speed, you should see a quicker flip.

 

[Stardoggy]

I feel like when I do a full run up I end up releasing late and throwing wayyyy off to the right. Something about the timing, idk. 90% of my drives are an X-step pattern of 1 slow step then a quicker X-step. During the quicker X-step I will pivot my hips away and then rip all the way around and through. But it all ends up just being 2-3 steps.

This is where I'm at, as well. It's one of those things that seems counter-intuitive, but I'm constantly having to remind myself to slow down, and let my game progress naturally. I think it's a function of wanting to throw 400' now, DAMMIT. I'm still searching for that elusive "hit", and have stalled out at about 320-330, but I can feel it getting better and better.

 

[Kodachrome]

^^you and me both, brotha.

i vary between a scissor step and a standstill. i take 3 SLOW steps, starting with my right - it's unnecessary, but it helps me get my timing. i've found it gives me time to match my backward extension with my front foot hitting. i tried speeding it up and failed hard. currently i hit about 300-320 with my axis, and my fairway drivers don't go much farther - usually exactly the same, actually. max D will go longer, obviously, but i always wind up going back to building from the bottom up. i don't think i've ever really felt the "hit" either.

 

[tampora]

I liken a good run-up to the approach in bowling: slow, accelerating, controlled, and entirely done with purpose.

 

[justinf67]

Its kind of funny. I have played with a standstill for the past 4-5 months. I could get 300-330ish from a standstill with pretty good accuracy. I have tried to implement a runup a few times during the past few months and failed. I finally keyed in on what I was doing wrong. I turned back way too early in the runup. I delay and now I feel smooth in my runup. Power has increased a bit. Now, in my runup, I feel my timing getting better. Throwing drives farther than ever before. This has come with a hiccup though. My standstill now feels forced. Has thrown off everything else, lol. The power increase has my drivers doing different things. Kinda crazy. I feel like the runup is needed to time things and build power from the uncorking. I hit the limit on standstills, for me, I couldnt throw farther till I got my runup down.