Why all the Innova Hate?

[disc qualified]

Why all the concern about all the Innova hate?
Hate 'em, throw 'em, do your thing.

 

[rocthecourse]

Why all the concern about all the Innova hate?
Hate 'em, throw 'em, do your thing.

Why all the concern about other's concern about all the Innova hate?

 

[Hyzer Ale]

Watch the underpants gnomes episode of South Park, I feel that is a good analogy for how people view companies like Innova (Harbucks in the episode) and the small companies (Tweak's Coffee).

 

[DiscinFiend]

Why all the concern about other's concern about all the Innova hate?

Watch the underpants gnomes episode of South Park, I feel that is a good analogy for how people view companies like Innova (Harbucks in the episode) and the small companies (Tweak's Coffee).

Yes! :thmbup:

 

[disc qualified]

Why all the concern about the concern about other's concern about all the Innova hate?

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

As stated, Innova is "The Man" when it comes to disc golf manufacturing. So everyone likes to hate on "The Man". They sell more than all the other companies combined. They manufacture lots of discs and they aren't always perfect.

I've also thrown most of their Discs in the 3 years since I started playing, but almost none of them are currently in my bag. Not out of hate, just from performance, and perhaps a small amount of anti-"The Man" feelings - or at least giving the new guys a chance.

I am trying to learn to throw the Destroyer right now, and want to get the right Teebird and Firebird for my bag.

 

[craftsman]

The beveled edge pat was a bs pat imho.
It held the sport back and was not a very cool thing to do.

 

[The Hammer]

My only real dislike of Innova is their marketing strategy, stuffing every Dicks, MC Sporting Goods, Meijers, Walmart, etc... with high speed drivers and telling new potential players how far they will go. I think they do a bit of a disservice to the game by creating "chuckers" and uninformed noobs. I know I dropped a small chunk of change early on for some high speed failures.

But in the end it is about what works for you, what feels good to you and what gives you the ability to improve. I love carrying my mixed bag of goodies, a little Innova, some Discraft, sprinkle in some MVP and color me good. Would love to go all Michigan and throw Discraft and MVP only, but I am not paid to do so and a couple Innova molds work for me, so they stay.

Buyers that work for those retailers are responsible for what discs are stocked on the shelves, not manufacturers (Innova).

 

[blackcatsmith]

There's just so many discs I want to buy right now(and I mean right NOW!) from different manufacturers. It makes it harder for me to look at buying an INNOVA disc if for no other reason than I'm already familiar with their product. I like their 'Jolly Rancher' plastic however, and could see myself picking up a Firebird or a Tee-Bird in this plastic over say buying a new mold from them like say the Tern or the Krait or the Mamba or well, you get the picture...

 

[7ontheline]

I just want to know why all the hate?

Its easier to spend time becoming a 970 rated hater than a 970 rated DGer and folks wanna be good at something.

 

[DiscinFiend]

The beveled edge pat was a bs pat imho.
It held the sport back and was not a very cool thing to do.

It was good from a business point of view. Any company that could of gotten the patent would of.

 

[ZMan44]

It's pretty simple. While physical retail distribution is becoming more and more common across the country, there is still a large percentage of original disc retail taking place online. I'd go so far as to say nearly 30% of new disc purchases take place online. Personally, I would never purchase an Innova disc online.

Innova screwed up a mold of Destroyers by using the newly developed Vulcan top with the Destroyer bottom. Oops. From that point, did Innova simply whisk them away to the factory store or label them as X-Outs? No, they just stamped them as Destroyers and sent them into the market at full price. That's pretty shady in my book. If any other manufacturer did this, people would complain as well.

Say you threw your *D in the pond at your local course. You hop online and order a replacement from Marshall Street or Disc Golf Center or Discnation or Gotta Go Gotta Throw...whoever... and you open your package 3 days later. Hmmm, this doesn't look or feel like a Destroyer. Then you take it to the field to throw. First throw...wtf?!

Again. Innova is not the devil. They make some great discs and they have advanced the sport. But as mentioned above, the patent on a bevel-edged disc is what made them a giant. It was not some exceptionally successful business strategy. In short, everyone should throw what they're comfortable with. But there are many of us who are skeptical about Innova and they have a track record of inconsistency.

 

[tbird888]

Its easier to spend time becoming a 970 rated hater than a 970 rated DGer and folks wanna be good at something.

:hfive:

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[DISCenchanted]

I think Innova got the reputation of being inconsistent with the instances of unmarked plus-molds, destrulcan mold, etc. which were fairly rare occurances. Anything beyond that is pretty well out of thier control and within margins. Plastic inconsistencies are going to occur due to variations from the source. And mold inconsistency is unavoidable due to changes in environmental conditions. These occur with virtually every manufacture, but are magnified when a company has greater output. It would be cost prohibitive for the companies to eliminate any variation in thier discs, so we put up with it. Lots of higher level players actually seek out those inconsistencies, looking for certain runs with flatter tops, higher/lower PLH, etc.(11x CAL TB, S/DS Destros anyone?).

 

[DISCenchanted]

I think Innova got the reputation of being inconsistent with the instances of unmarked plus-molds, destrulcan mold, etc. which were fairly rare occurances. Anything beyond that is pretty well out of thier control and within margins. Plastic inconsistencies are going to occur due to variations from the source. And mold inconsistency is unavoidable due to changes in environmental conditions. These occur with virtually every manufacture, but are magnified when a company has greater output. It would be cost prohibitive for the companies to eliminate any variation in thier discs, so we put up with it. Lots of higher level players actually seek out those inconsistencies, looking for certain runs with flatter tops, higher/lower PLH, etc.(11x CAL TB, S/DS Destros anyone?).

 

[PMcBeth]

I'll be honest, I love the Swedish plastic..and Discraft Midranges. That being said, I will always have a Teebird and a Leopard in my bag, so I don't necessarily hate Innova. But I do have a major problem with the inconsistencies. Most recently: the Tern. I have a CFR Tern, early run, and it is awesome. I can bomb that disc. Then the stock-stamps came out and they are all completely different. The first batch was a true -4, 2 for the HSS/LSS as designed. The new Champ stock stamps say -2, 2 ... which is VERY different. Now the Star terns are out, with a printed -4, 2. I have not thrown one to see what it throws like, but this is pretty inconsistent. AND it is inconsistent enough to where different plastics are having different flight numbers stamped on them. In my opinion, the current champion stock stamps are NOT Terns. But Innova will continue to call them Terns because it's the newest disc and they want to sell the heck out of it.

Those of us that have played disc golf for 8+ years have noticed severe inconsistencies between Innova's "runs" of the same mold. Now we can clearly see Innova acknowledging this via flight numbers printed on stock stamps, but without making any sort of mention elsewhere. In essence, they know there's a problem, but they don't want to fix it, because they want to sell the disc the way it is. It would not surprise me in the slightest for the next batch of champ Terns to come out like the originals or heck, even farther away from the stability of the original.

Bottom line: no other Teebird I've ever had flies like my SE Teebirds. If I lose my Champ Leopard, I'm going to have to find another light sparkle champ CFR Leopard, because a stock champ Leopard will fly differently. I almost expect it from Innova. If I love my tourney stamp Z-Buzzz, I can go find another Z-Buzzz and it will fly the same. I've noticed very little inconsistencies from other manufacturers, though they are surely there.

And I'll leave you with one word that will sum up many people's feelings on Innova's inconsistency: Destrulcan.

I'm unsure if you have seen TheSpinTV video where dave explains the plastics. Each type of plastic has a different flight pattern regardless of the disc itself. It's like comparing a composite wood bat to a soild wood bat. they feel similar but make the ball come off the bat different. the discs feel the same mold wise but plastic feels different so in essence they will fly a bit different so I don't see why you are complaining when they CLEARLY acknowledge that for you by making a champion -2 and not -4 so you know it will fly a bit different.

 

[SteezeOG]

People thinking opinions or likes and dislikes makes you a "hater". That's the problem. There is a reason for multiple plastics and companies. I throw zero innova but genuinely like about 35% of their molds. Why don't I throw innova then? They don't make gold line plastic....but I'm a hater? No....I'm a smart consumer who buys and uses the things that appeal to me.


Buying Innova when I don't care for their plastic choices only because they did the modern disc first and sell the most is just nostalgically stupid.

 

[Nasty Nate]

Ooohh I wanna join this conversation!

I would not say that I hate Innova, although I do dislike a lot of their disc names and colors. That is my only real problem with them. I guess it comes from my artistic mentality, but to me a lot of their disc names are not very clever and they have no continuity, plus their colors are often very drab (although they do have some good ones considering they have a million discs and variations).

I mean come on... Cro, Ape, Katana, Wahoo, Krait, Kite, Skeeter, Monarch, Mamba, Orc, TeeRex, etc... I can dig on the animal motif but they're not all tied together very well and it just seems like their idea department is all over the place. Who wants to throw a "Wahoo"?? This is my main complaint about Innova because the names of the discs should be desirable and make you feel cool but I don't get how you go from Orc to Monarch. One of these things is not like the other.

Also I think a lot of their disc colors are pretty boring and it doesn't help. Because now you have companies like Latitude 64 who have some of the prettiest discs on the market and everyone likes shiny things so their flashy plastic literally outshines Innova's dull discs (Star plastic is especially bland, even though the plastic itself is very good). Again, this is all merely aesthetic but that is part of attracting buyers to your product. And I think their rating system is just a touch pretentious, especially if Innova is widely available for beginners. Is there really a noticeable difference between discs with 1 fade or 2 fade? Maybe I'm showing n00bishness here though because I really don't know the answer haha.

Lastly, I just wanted to say that I got away from Innova because it's what I started discing with when I was still a n00b and I had no idea what I was doing. Well, now I have somewhat of an idea what I'm doing but I had never tried a Discraft disc before so I got a few of those back when I started really getting into disc golf. Now there are a plethora of disc companies to choose from so it seems natural to want to try all the shiny plastic to see how it compares to the grandfather of disc golf (not that I would even know how it compares to my beginner days).

 

[ru4por]

Playing for as long as I have, I could not hate or dislike Innova. They were the only kids on the block for many years with Discraft and Whamo. I get what McBeth is saying and have no issue that different plastics will behave differently. I have indeed had issues with some Innova molds, more so than other companies over the years. I have had a Discraft Elite X-XS in my bag for years as a control long fairway disc. It has been a consistant buy, behaving and wearing very much the same for years. I have not always found this to be true with Innova. I am sure all companies deal with this, it is perhaps just more prenounced in the handful of Innova molds I use. I have several Innova models that are not replacable in my bag and I will continue to support them as innovators and pioneers of the game I love.

 

[Dr.feelgood]

All companies have some inconsistencies but innova seems to be a little worse then other companies. And innovas plastic technology seems to be lagging way behind some of the newer companies.