Why do pros choose hyzers on open holes?

[garublador]

I can't seem to explain this to my buddy. He's 45 and a good player so every tome I tell him " more predictable" he laughs, puts one down the pipes, and says;" more predictable than that?"

It's impossible to show that a shot is "more predictible" aka easier to perform, with one throw. The question isn't whether or not a shot can be performed, it's how often you can perform it well. If he can do that just as predictibly then good for him. That doesn't mean his shot is more predictible for everyone, though.

 

[bthoma1]

I just watched a skins video of Climo, Jenkins, Feldberg and noticed that more often than not - even on straight holes - they choose to throw hyzers.

Is this more accurate than a straight shot?

you mean Climo Jenkings Feldberg and Arthur right?
You can't be leaving phil out son

 

[racer93]

The top pros also have so much snap and disc speed, that most discs turn over, so they release them hyzer and they flip flatter when they want glide.

This is not true. If you increase speed AND snap at the same rate, the disc will hold it's given line longer and more consistently than those with a lot of speed and less spin (leads to OAT). This is why top pros throw far and can do so even into a significant wind. It's all about the speed/spin ratio.

I have the power to throw a TB nearly 500' and can throw a TB absolutely flat and have no turn at full speed and snap (given it won't go that far, but it will go well over 400'). For the top guys, it's all about control.

 

[bazkitcase5]

the main reason is a hyzer shot is the discs natural tendency... just watch any beginner throw or take any driver out of your bag and throw it softly - the disc wants to hyzer naturally, because that is what it does at lower speeds

on a wide open 300' shot, a pro would rather throw the hyzer, because they can pick a faster disc that they can release on a hyzer angle and never turn it over, because they will not be throwing hard enough to over power it

by playing with the discs natural tendency instead of against it, you reduce your margin for error, thus making the shot more consistent and predictable

there is a hole similar to this at a course local to me that I can reach with a putter, and even easier with a roc and can birdie with both fairly consistently, but I still have to throw those discs quite hard... by having to throw so much harder, I lose a little control and risk turning the discs over (especially if there is any head wind) - instead, I usually throw the big hyzer with a moderately stable driver, and tend to birdie this hole nearly every time I play it... and even on my less than great throws, I am still always putting at the basket for birdie

 

[bazkitcase5]

also consider this - on the above mentioned hole, I can birdie said mentioned hole by throwing a roc straight at it, in most wind conditions, about 7-8 times out of 10 (depending on how well I am playing at that time) - after all, I play pro, I am supposed to be able to throw a wide open straight shot fairly consistently

but with the driver hyzer, I can play the same hole, and birdie it about 9-10 times out of 10

even though both shots are fairly consistent for me, when you play in a tournament as a pro (or any division for that matter), it is all about reducing your margin for error and playing the most consistent shot, even if it is not noticeable every single round - if you do this on all 18 holes for every round of the tournament, you will be very surprised how many strokes you can save off of your score (2-3 strokes per round is 20-30 ratings points on most courses for those with PDGA ratings)

 

[craftsman]

It's impossible to show that a shot is "more predictible" aka easier to perform, with one throw. The question isn't whether or not a shot can be performed, it's how often you can perform it well. If he can do that just as predictibly then good for him. That doesn't mean his shot is more predictible for everyone, though.

I toss with him about once a week and we have played a dozen courses together, so it's not just one hole I'm talking about.
I agree that hyzer is super predictable but I do feel his shot has a huge advantage many times. I would think it would be best to have both shots and choose your line, but what I'm seein is most do have a straight shot option- I don't see how this is good. He uses sharks, makos, leos... Are hyzer lines more predictable with those discs? Just like any shot, if we practice it, can't we all be just as predictable with it? Not trying to argue, just that I never doubted hyzers til I saw straight shots preformed so well.
I also think big hyzers are more popular sinc e dropping the two meter rule.

 

[SirRaph]

Personally, I use the hyzer/spike approach to take advantage of the discs direction of rotation. A spike hyzer has backspin, and will usually stop dead where it lands. A slight hyzer can be aimed out to the right of the target with a chance to skip in.

Anhyzer shots can either flex out and carry past the target, or even worse, hit the ground on an anny angle and roll unpredictably.

I also think that the hyzer shot is a more natural motion for the arm. It's more forgiving.

Lastly, throwing an overstable disc flat, to the right of the target, basically ensures that the disc won't flip over. I'm taking most every variable out of the shot, other than distance.

 

[garublador]

Just like any shot, if we practice it, can't we all be just as predictable with it? Not trying to argue, just that I never doubted hyzers til I saw straight shots preformed so well.
I also think big hyzers are more popular sinc e dropping the two meter rule.

Having more shots you can perform predictibly is always good, but that wasn't the question. The question is that, knowing that pros can throw all of those shots predictibly, why do they seem to choose hyzers most of the time? I don't think anyone will argue that being able to be just as consistant with a straight shot is a bad thing.

 

[Script]

Muscle memory. If you say you're more comfortable and accurate throwing a straight line, you're not in the majority. If you've been playing dg for years, or even throwing a frisbee, you started out throwing hyzers. It's natural. What happens is most people build their game from this natural motion and develop a lot more confidence/control/skill with a simple hyzer.

Also, with OB on the right, you'd rather the disc flare away from OB. (RHBH)

 

[magictenor1]

I do this all the time. Use the natural tendency of the disc to your advantage. I carry a driver that I only use for shots like that. Also I use this theory on most of my approach shots too which is one of the strengths of my game.

 

[Dave242]

Muscle memory. If you say you're more comfortable and accurate throwing a straight line, you're not in the majority. If you've been playing dg for years, or even throwing a frisbee, you started out throwing hyzers. It's natural. What happens is most people build their game from this natural motion and develop a lot more confidence/control/skill with a simple hyzer.

While what you say is very true, what I find interesting is that often the opposite happens with a lot of people from an Ultimate background. Yes, you do release an Ultimate lid with a lot of hyzer for power throws, but to make the disc turn on an anhyzer line you need to really throw with a good clean anhyzer throw.

I have not thought much about the reasons for this, but lots of us (ex)Ultimate players seem very comfortable throwing understable/flippy discs and are very accomplished at throwing anhyzer lines. Any theories/thoughts out there?

 

[Scoot_er]

Because hyzers are the easiest shot and leads to the most birdie putts.

 

[zenbot]

I have not thought much about the reasons for this, but lots of us (ex)Ultimate players seem very comfortable throwing understable/flippy discs and are very accomplished at throwing anhyzer lines. Any theories/thoughts out there?

The same goes for the lefties I've played with

 

[Ace D]

hyzers are often more reliable than a straight or s-curve shot. pros use them for predictability.

 

[Rip Van]

Yes, you do release an Ultimate lid with a lot of hyzer for power throws, but to make the disc turn on an anhyzer line you need to really throw with a good clean anhyzer throw.

I have not thought much about the reasons for this, but lots of us (ex)Ultimate players seem very comfortable throwing understable/flippy discs and are very accomplished at throwing anhyzer lines. Any theories/thoughts out there?

Throwing that light plastic in the wind so much makes you learn how to work it -- hyzer, anhyzer, straight. And you do wind up throwing anhyzer a lot in Ultimate. Swing passes, over the top zone-breakers, long bombs down the sideline. In golf you can switch to forehand, but in Ultimate the mark will often deny that to you. You want to be a big part of the offense in Ultimate, you've got to have the anhyzer. Else, just play D.

 

[jtencer]

While what you say is very true, what I find interesting is that often the opposite happens with a lot of people from an Ultimate background. Yes, you do release an Ultimate lid with a lot of hyzer for power throws, but to make the disc turn on an anhyzer line you need to really throw with a good clean anhyzer throw.

I have not thought much about the reasons for this, but lots of us (ex)Ultimate players seem very comfortable throwing understable/flippy discs and are very accomplished at throwing anhyzer lines. Any theories/thoughts out there?

I used to throw all of my short approaches (150' and in) with a hard x-challenger on a RHBH anny line. It was just so comfortable. These days I just do a flick straight at it.

Either way, you're right. My ultimate background makes me comfortable doing things that other DGers don't like.

For example, I never straddle putt. It's way more comfortable and consistent for me to lean out like I'm breaking the mark. It also let's me get way out there if I'm behind a big obstacle. I see a lot of people on the course pivoting on their right foot (when they're right handed) and being unable to get a backhand off.

 

[mpac]

Not sure if it just me,

but I am much more impressed by a low straight shot at the basket, that gets there nicely, rather than the big hyzer line.

I am capable of throwing both, but I get much more satisfaction from shots that take more finesse and control.

I realize some shots I have require a big hyzer, but to 'thread the needle' feels sooo much better.

 

[garublador]

Not sure if it just me,

but I am much more impressed by a low straight shot at the basket, that gets there nicely, rather than the big hyzer line.

I am capable of throwing both, but I get much more satisfaction from shots that take more finesse and control.

I realize some shots I have require a big hyzer, but to 'thread the needle' feels sooo much better.

Pro's aren't worried about impressing, they're worried about scoring well.

 

[Spatula Cornroll]

Because they can't throw the discs straight.