depends on the shot-- https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/aiming.shtml
basically you are aiming with the shoulder vs chest.
basically you are aiming with the shoulder vs chest.
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Why the Beato drill is so important.
- Thread starter HyzerUniBomber
- Start date
Toro71
* Ace Member *
It's better to think about 'open' vs. 'closed' in terms of your feet/stance.
Imagine a line on the ground from you to your target. Starting with your front and rear (pivot and push-off) feet on this line, i.e. shoulders parallel to it, turning further away from the target would be 'closing your stance' or a 'more closed' stance, and turning further toward the target would be 'opening your stance' or a 'more open' stance.
For DG throws, you can also consider the hips and shoulders the same way. The timing of each (feet, hips, shoulders closed vs. open) is everything, I think is the takeaway here.
Toro71
* Ace Member *
^ seems like everybody thinks of "aiming" differently, or in reference to different moments in the throw or different body parts.
For me it's mostly feet. I have a tendency to have a stance with both feet on the line, which causes me to miss right. I have to focus on having a slightly closed stance to hit my line @ full power.
For me it's mostly feet. I have a tendency to have a stance with both feet on the line, which causes me to miss right. I have to focus on having a slightly closed stance to hit my line @ full power.
Toro71
* Ace Member *
You guys beat me to it....hopefully, we're right.
(and not, like, overcompensating for spinning out or what not.)
46YearOldSlinger
Double Eagle Member
HUB,
Dude... I just want to thank you for this video. I've seen the Beato video many times but there's something about the way you really exaggerate how slow the first part of the pull up to the right pec is that really made me get it. I've watched your video at least 15 times this week and some light bulbs are finally starting to click on. Now when I throw
1. I think slow... slow... slow as long as possible then rip at the end (at the right pec or armpit)
2. Lead with the elbow. After watching your video I've been keeping the elbow angle much more acute forcing the lower arm to "fling" around better.
I've been hitting a wall for a few months and this really helped me. I'm now looking back at other videos and advice and I see that maybe there's really nothing new here but you somehow you said it in a way that finally clicked for me.
Can I bomb? Hell no
Can I beat most of you reading this? Hell no
Can I play better disc golf this week than I could last week? Hell yes, and that's enough to make me smile.
I'm bookmarking this one for reference. Thank you.
Dude... I just want to thank you for this video. I've seen the Beato video many times but there's something about the way you really exaggerate how slow the first part of the pull up to the right pec is that really made me get it. I've watched your video at least 15 times this week and some light bulbs are finally starting to click on. Now when I throw
1. I think slow... slow... slow as long as possible then rip at the end (at the right pec or armpit)
2. Lead with the elbow. After watching your video I've been keeping the elbow angle much more acute forcing the lower arm to "fling" around better.
I've been hitting a wall for a few months and this really helped me. I'm now looking back at other videos and advice and I see that maybe there's really nothing new here but you somehow you said it in a way that finally clicked for me.
Can I bomb? Hell no
Can I beat most of you reading this? Hell no
Can I play better disc golf this week than I could last week? Hell yes, and that's enough to make me smile.
I'm bookmarking this one for reference. Thank you.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I just got home from a stupidly long and brutal work day, which jacked our family plans for camping. Yesterday I managed to drop my bag in a river, losing 4 of my favorite discs, jumping in fully clothed to try to get them back. Tags match was not great.
Been a rough couple days.
But reading that really put a smile on my face! I definitely have been absorbing as much as possible, trying to understand the importance of each system. I love that it's not easy, it makes me stay hungry to work on it.
Been a rough couple days.
But reading that really put a smile on my face! I definitely have been absorbing as much as possible, trying to understand the importance of each system. I love that it's not easy, it makes me stay hungry to work on it.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
One way I used to aim before my form fell apart was thinking about where exactly I needed the hit to happen as well as angle of release to get the line I was after. As long as I got the proper disc into fitting those two requirements, all I really needed to do was trust it to fly like it's supposed tol.
turbine712
Birdie Member
Not to hijack or derail this thread but I miss Beato's video's. From what I can find he quit his science job and formed a rock band. I wonder if he even plays anymore?
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I took the weekend off, no disc'n for 3 days. Had a short window to run out on the lunch break, and I just wanted to get this down: Best throws of my life. It all synced up in terms of technique.
I was not throwing for distance, just for smooth 250' putter shots.
My concept was that I needed to think in terms of extending the disc forward to a point out front in a very "hammering" kind of way.
Pre-throw, I sorta punched the release point a few times, and used a line on the sidewalk to adjust myself to a straight line from backswing to hammer point. The line that you're throwing on is what you really need to adjust your body to and you might need to be more closed than you think you will be.
I pulled it into my right pec, hand on the outside in a closed stance.
Elbow height really matters in that it really helps to be on the same height in your back-swing. The flatness of the line that you're pulling on - makes for substantially better accuracy and less to worry about in the extension.
250' with a putter on a flat line... 5 discs were 5' from the basket, 2 hit the pole.
As you take more out of your back-swing, it gets easier to work out timing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r32YosCx-8
Young swings like this, check it out at 40:50 in the above video.
The best way I can describe it is completely effortless. The "pull" comes from your shoulders opening, which makes it incredibly easy to control the disc because your arm is not really "pulling."
Hopefully today I can take some video after work.
I was not throwing for distance, just for smooth 250' putter shots.
My concept was that I needed to think in terms of extending the disc forward to a point out front in a very "hammering" kind of way.
Pre-throw, I sorta punched the release point a few times, and used a line on the sidewalk to adjust myself to a straight line from backswing to hammer point. The line that you're throwing on is what you really need to adjust your body to and you might need to be more closed than you think you will be.
I pulled it into my right pec, hand on the outside in a closed stance.
Elbow height really matters in that it really helps to be on the same height in your back-swing. The flatness of the line that you're pulling on - makes for substantially better accuracy and less to worry about in the extension.
250' with a putter on a flat line... 5 discs were 5' from the basket, 2 hit the pole.
As you take more out of your back-swing, it gets easier to work out timing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r32YosCx-8
Young swings like this, check it out at 40:50 in the above video.
The best way I can describe it is completely effortless. The "pull" comes from your shoulders opening, which makes it incredibly easy to control the disc because your arm is not really "pulling."
Hopefully today I can take some video after work.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I really think that getting your elbow out front is easier when you think of it like you are trying to reach the hit point out of reach in front of you. By having that imagery, you know you are going to need to keep your shoulders closed through that time, other wise you are making it harder to get out there.... maybe video will show what I'm trying to say here better.
So in a nutshell, you use the pace of your shoulders to control the pull/push of the disc? There is an initial turn to get the disc into the chest and elbow forward, followed by a pause and secondary turn to push the disc forward into the hit?
bfowler
Double Eagle Member
It's funny. Before I even read your last two posts I was beginning to throw like you're describing but I was doing it for different reasons. When I pull straight straight back almost into my body and turn and reach back. I'm actually pulling too far in. Misguided attempts to pull close to my chest.
Now, I'm just trying to keep the disc more out away from my body (about 4-6 inches) from the start of my run-up through to my backswing. What really started me doing this was trying to keep my shoulders/torso/right shoulder pointing at the basket longer. If I pull straight back I turn much earlier than if I keep the disc away from my body a little bit.
I was ripping my Ion, Envy, and Rocs longer than I usually do. (Not sure of the distance. It's out behind where I work on lunch break) Usually I land where a warehouse ends but I was getting 15-30 feet past it. I'm still early releasing it to much though.
I'd be very interested for you to go into more detail on the shoulders. I feel like I don't use my shoulders very well at all. I use my hips to get into the right pec position and then it's an active arm pull the rest of the way. I'm not sure when or how to really fire my shoulders.
Now, I'm just trying to keep the disc more out away from my body (about 4-6 inches) from the start of my run-up through to my backswing. What really started me doing this was trying to keep my shoulders/torso/right shoulder pointing at the basket longer. If I pull straight back I turn much earlier than if I keep the disc away from my body a little bit.
I was ripping my Ion, Envy, and Rocs longer than I usually do. (Not sure of the distance. It's out behind where I work on lunch break) Usually I land where a warehouse ends but I was getting 15-30 feet past it. I'm still early releasing it to much though.
I'd be very interested for you to go into more detail on the shoulders. I feel like I don't use my shoulders very well at all. I use my hips to get into the right pec position and then it's an active arm pull the rest of the way. I'm not sure when or how to really fire my shoulders.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I did not feel like there was a pause or that there were two different motions.
It felt like a very linear guide into the elbow pointing, which turns into this forward extending motion.
The more I was "reaching forward" with the hammering, the more the system felt linear and the more accurate I was.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
I'm going to have shoot some slow motion footage to see, but I "feel" like I'm not opening my shoulders at all during the right pec/elbow driving.
It's happening faster than I can process, and I wasn't shooting video - but I think the shoulder opening happens at the very end, going from 12:00 to 3:00 on the disc - accelerating the very end of the pull around.
It was such a strange sensation, because it was the opposite of strong arming, it felt like no-arming.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
All right, so I managed to take some slow motion footage last night which is much easier to capture the details from.
So trying to explain it as simply as possible:
1. I focus loosely on guiding the disc into the right pec. I have to use reps of this motion before I throw to get the feel for it - because I've been a left pec/center puller for a very long time. The wrist does have to stay loose for me to get into this position.
2. I'm very conscious of looking perpendicular to the line I'm throwing on. This has helped me fight off over-opening.
3. Visualizing the line you're throwing on as starting from the back of the reach back - ending at the hit. By seeing this line, I've started closing my stance more. It's taken some doing to get the alignment worked out because you are guiding the disc straight, as you're turning.
So trying to explain it as simply as possible:
1. I focus loosely on guiding the disc into the right pec. I have to use reps of this motion before I throw to get the feel for it - because I've been a left pec/center puller for a very long time. The wrist does have to stay loose for me to get into this position.
2. I'm very conscious of looking perpendicular to the line I'm throwing on. This has helped me fight off over-opening.
3. Visualizing the line you're throwing on as starting from the back of the reach back - ending at the hit. By seeing this line, I've started closing my stance more. It's taken some doing to get the alignment worked out because you are guiding the disc straight, as you're turning.
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Your first freeze frame is mislabeled. Should read bent elbow leading forward of the shoulder(elbow is flexed, not extended).
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
bfowler
Double Eagle Member
To me it still looks like you're opening your shoulders about 15-20 degrees at release. That's about how my shoulders open up and I still feel like I'm not using them. My average is 330 so I'm probably not.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
My understanding is that you don't want your shoulders pulling your hand around the disc. If you're opening at the hand/pec position, you're definitely going to be pulling around early, losing that distance that you want to pull around.
I'm open to some degree at the full arm extension point, but I don't believe it's negatively affecting the throw.
The shoulders have to turn at some point, I think the key thing is that they're not turning at a point where they're going to pull your arm out of place.
Krinkncrank
Bogey Member
Starting to put the puzzle together a little more. Really diggin' this thread!
Another round of field work in the back yard with my 8 midrange discs, throwing at a basket from 200', nice and relaxed, focused on form. All throws were relatively straight line from a standing position, just to decrease the variables.
Here's what is clicking, at least intellectually for the time being:
If your head does not turn early, then your shoulder tends not to turn early...
The last 20˚ of the lower arm snap generates the max power, with tendon bounce at the end...
If you turn your head too early then you tend to turn your shoulder too, which means that in order to throw the disc straight at the basket you have to let the disc go early in the snap, losing power. If you let it go at the end of the snap, with your shoulders already turned it likely means the throw we all call 'grip-locked'...
A closed stance means that the arm can reach out and away from the body slightly while still tracking the disc on a straight line in relation to the flight path.
A closed stance makes it much easier to employ the 'hockey slap shot' style of weight shift, bringing the trailing foot in leading with the inner heel, and planting the front leg solidly, weight setting down, knee bending slightly.
Felt good today at least - effortless. Now to try and incorporate the x-step at some point...
Another round of field work in the back yard with my 8 midrange discs, throwing at a basket from 200', nice and relaxed, focused on form. All throws were relatively straight line from a standing position, just to decrease the variables.
Here's what is clicking, at least intellectually for the time being:
If your head does not turn early, then your shoulder tends not to turn early...
The last 20˚ of the lower arm snap generates the max power, with tendon bounce at the end...
If you turn your head too early then you tend to turn your shoulder too, which means that in order to throw the disc straight at the basket you have to let the disc go early in the snap, losing power. If you let it go at the end of the snap, with your shoulders already turned it likely means the throw we all call 'grip-locked'...
A closed stance means that the arm can reach out and away from the body slightly while still tracking the disc on a straight line in relation to the flight path.
A closed stance makes it much easier to employ the 'hockey slap shot' style of weight shift, bringing the trailing foot in leading with the inner heel, and planting the front leg solidly, weight setting down, knee bending slightly.
Felt good today at least - effortless. Now to try and incorporate the x-step at some point...
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