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Here's a sign of the times... I realize as he's standing there waiting for my insurance card, that my card is expired and I'm digging like crazy through my glove box - he goes back to his car to run my digits.
Call my insurance company (they're local) - tell the guy who answers "I'm getting pulled over, card is expired. Can you please email my new card?"
Great work as always, Hub. It's funny, I was just practicing this the other day before you posted it. Referring to backhanding the person in front of you. I'd been doing standstill throws trying to really feel the snap consistently.
Two things I noticed or reinforced in my thinking. Keep your elbow out and away from your body. Put the disc in your armpit. And let your shoulder open a little. Look at all the pros and where there shoulders are in relation to their disc through the right peck position. There is a core turn. It's not sure turn with your elbow forward and pull with your hand.
The 2nd thing is that backhand to the invisible person just in front of your. When I really focus on landing a backhead to their right earhole I'm smooth until I'm about 5-6 inches from impact to their head and that's when everything explodes. It's also the last moment I can remotely keep my hand on the other side of disc.
Try the drill of throwing a pen backhand (make it spin) at a target. You can get a really, really, really good feel for how to snap. Only wiht a pen you can do it with or without extending the arm all the way out. With a disc you need that extension.
I've been throwing my Axis around 300 feet and my Amp and Leopard about 320 from a standstill.
Try the drill of throwing a pen backhand (make it spin) at a target. You can get a really, really, really good feel for how to snap. Only wiht a pen you can do it with or without extending the arm all the way out. With a disc you need that extension.
I've been throwing my Axis around 300 feet and my Amp and Leopard about 320 from a standstill.
Well tried to elbow drive today and was really hyzering the crap out of things. Tried to start from the right pec position and was able to throw ~200 feet with my putters. No steps or reachback. Only issue was I came over quite a few and pulled them on anny lines. Felt pretty easy coming out. I'll go back out and work on slowing it all down.
I found this video super helpful, not so much for the issue you were discussing, but how the issue was framed. I've been working hard to get my elbow drive forward and it was working okay - no great improvement though - but when you mentioned it was like trying to elbow someone that really this really clicked for me. What I found was that when I made the move with my elbow and tried to elbow that hypothetical person in front of me, all of a sudden I was getting a nice heavy weight transfer onto my front leg, something that has long eluded me. That led right away to figuring out how to pivot with my weight on the plant leg, and I found it most natural and comfortable to pivot on the ball of my foot, with my heel just barely un-weighting.
A very helpful tip :clap: and I'll be practicing this one a bunch more. That, and putting, putting, putting...
Well tried to elbow drive today and was really hyzering the crap out of things. Tried to start from the right pec position and was able to throw ~200 feet with my putters. No steps or reachback. Only issue was I came over quite a few and pulled them on anny lines. Felt pretty easy coming out. I'll go back out and work on slowing it all down.
Easy is right! That's the sign that you're closing in on the extension.
So just keep in mind that where the disc is going, is secondary to where your body is going (for now). My shots sprayed everywhere as I was fixing this stuff.
You're going to be holding the disc another 6" or more based on that pic you posted earlier - so the release point is going to be further out front. Your stance will close up more, stuff will feel very different, stuff will change.
Eventually I was able to consistently see my elbow leading my shoulder and that I was getting the disc far enough to the right pec and then I started making adjustments to stance, angles, nose angles. I'm still working on that to be honest. It's almost like you've got so much more power available by holding to the true hit, that it's easy to throw longer than you were intending.
I have to avoid the hit on upshots, consciously, or I'll overshoot the basket by 50'. I do that by loosening the grip and shortening the backswing.
You can tell from my video, it's not that I'm some super strong muscle head that can bomb shots. I'm just taking advantage of leverage, and it's so much easier to multiply your speed out front and later in the arc.
I went back out tonight and threw 150-200' putter shots. Super slow and basically tried to emulate the rhythm you had in the first part of your video and it worked.
I probably threw 50 shots and actually hit the basket/pole quite a bit and overthrew it a few times by 20-30' with very little effort. Of course I grip locked the crap out of a few but the majority were effortless and dead straight.
I dont know if I'll ever be able to apply force to that motion but I'll keep practicing b/c it felt smooth.
I did notice that my wrist is too tense and probably part of why i have a very loud audible snap when i throw (early release and no wrist flap) so the disc isn't getting the proper palm ejection but that is for another day i think.
I found this video super helpful, not so much for the issue you were discussing, but how the issue was framed. I've been working hard to get my elbow drive forward and it was working okay - no great improvement though - but when you mentioned it was like trying to elbow someone that really this really clicked for me. What I found was that when I made the move with my elbow and tried to elbow that hypothetical person in front of me, all of a sudden I was getting a nice heavy weight transfer onto my front leg, something that has long eluded me. That led right away to figuring out how to pivot with my weight on the plant leg, and I found it most natural and comfortable to pivot on the ball of my foot, with my heel just barely un-weighting.
A very helpful tip :clap: and I'll be practicing this one a bunch more. That, and putting, putting, putting...
I had a similar experience with this today too. I have been pivoting on the ball of my foot for the longest time and have a hard time stopping the habit. This technique just might be the key
I was pulling a lot of stand still shots right today with power and I remembered Hubs tips about aiming to the left. The ones that I pulled now went straight and far with a lot more power but the ones I threw straight went left where I was aiming into the bushes.
Feels weird. It's feels almost like my arm is moving a lot faster. Stand with your right arm raised straight out beside you. Now, push it straight back until your shoulder won't let it got back any more. That is what my arm is doing on those throws.
I've always had a problem following through. My arm always just stops early. I have to force it to keep going to get a full follow through. The momentum almost never pulls me through. Not with these. I'm still balanced but I can tell the huge increase in speed through and after the pull instead of more up to the pull.
Now, I just have to figure out how to do it on purpose.
I went back out tonight and threw 150-200' putter shots. Super slow and basically tried to emulate the rhythm you had in the first part of your video and it worked.
I probably threw 50 shots and actually hit the basket/pole quite a bit and overthrew it a few times by 20-30' with very little effort. Of course I grip locked the crap out of a few but the majority were effortless and dead straight.
I dont know if I'll ever be able to apply force to that motion but I'll keep practicing b/c it felt smooth.
I did notice that my wrist is too tense and probably part of why i have a very loud audible snap when i throw (early release and no wrist flap) so the disc isn't getting the proper palm ejection but that is for another day i think.
Works a little crazy today, so I'll try to get a quick response out:
NICE!!! I feel like as you gain the access to easier acceleration you get to pay more attention to your angles - which makes it so much easier to be accurate.
Adding more into this system tricky because it's SUPER easy to think you need to add arm to it. That's a one way ticket to trouble and turned over shots.
It's feeling the leverage more that gets you to 350' with a glidey mid and it still feels effortless (like those 200' putter shots). I strongly suggest using a mid for learning to add distance to it - the wider disc seems to allow me to feel the leverage more drastically. Narrow rim on a mid also helps feel the leverage more.
I was pulling a lot of stand still shots right today with power and I remembered Hubs tips about aiming to the left. The ones that I pulled now went straight and far with a lot more power but the ones I threw straight went left where I was aiming into the bushes.
Feels weird. It's feels almost like my arm is moving a lot faster. Stand with your right arm raised straight out beside you. Now, push it straight back until your shoulder won't let it got back any more. That is what my arm is doing on those throws.
Yes, it's probably the hardest adjustment to make once you get the physical movement down. It really felt like I had to aim way left until the new release point became the new normal. Eventually I stopped "aiming" per say, and I began to be consistent enough to know where the line was.
At the end, your hand is definitely going faster now. It feels elastic through the hand and wrist, pulled tight for a microsecond and like there's some crazy bounce... I can't really tell WTF is happening because it happens so fast that I can't differentiate much.
But the disc is ejecting in a way that it never had before - and with no real muscle in it.
Just wanted to point out that the elbow smack is a drill more than a technique.
I used that drill to help myself learn to guide to the right pec with the elbow leading the shoulder.
Once your regularly getting to the right pec, it seems like most people find a more natural balance for their physique... so long as they're still leveraging from the power zone to the hit: right pec to the hit.
AJ & Beto are both hitting the leverage optimally - and you can tell they're not really in the elbow smack position.
I just didn't want folks thinking I was saying to throw that way, it really was meant as a drill to help fix left pec/center pec openers.
Regarding weight shift: when I'm throwing from a stand-still like this:
Hips, shoulders, etc seem to be naturally engaging as an effect of shifting balance from the neutral stance at the start, to a shoulder rotation in the back-swing. During that motion, we load up our back thigh because our front foot comes off the ground and the rear leg pushes the hips forward to the plant.
For a while I thought it would be a big benefit to actively drop my rear knee, and you can in fact uncork some pretty intense forces that way, but it is also really easy to mess up the rest of the chain of events doing that.
I'll preach this forever now that I've seen what it unlocks: protect the extension at all costs. It's by far the easiest access to leverage. Hips and knees and all that are a smaller percentage of the force than the basic mechanism of leveraging the disc from the right pec to the hit.
I don't like the phrase "drop the knee". The knee lowering has to do with your spine and center of gravity/mass lowering during the compression of the swing.
I don't like the phrase "drop the knee". The knee lowering has to do with your spine and center of gravity/mass lowering during the compression of the swing.
That makes sense, I only used that term because I don't know what else to call it. Lowering your center of gravitry during compression doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
There too much complexity in the throw to generalize things like drop the knee or keep your head down. They are just indicators of something bigger happening and not always a good indicator because things can work the opposite way as well. You can drop your knee or keep your head down and have terrible things happening.
