Women's qualifying spot for USDGC?

[storyboy]

This is a topic I would love to have an answer. Could a man with a sex change be allowed in fpo? I told one of my buddies this is his solution of becoming a world champion.

I have wondered about this in sports in schools. What is there to stop a top player on the males team to say he feels like a woman in a mans body and then play on the womens team? They couldn't stop him it would be discrimination. It would be the end of sports in schools.:wall:

 

[JC17393]

I have wondered about this in sports in schools. What is there to stop a top player on the males team to say he feels like a woman in a mans body and then play on the womens team? They couldn't stop him it would be discrimination. It would be the end of sports in schools.:wall:

The "Stockholm Consensus" already linked upthread establishes a baseline policy that most institutions (PDGA included) can adopt with regard to transgendered athletes. That policy suggests at least two years post-op before an athlete can be allowed to compete in an event as their chosen gender. So the person would have to be committed to changing gender to "get away with it".

But, there are other cases in school athletics where a boy doesn't even need to claim to be a girl to play on a girls team. Title IX cuts both ways. If there's is no boys equivalent for a given sport (so a boy can't jump from theboys soccer team to the girls soccer team), boys can be allowed to play on a girls team. The most prominent sport I can think of is field hockey. Just google it, there are plenty of examples of boys playing field hockey with the girls because there are no boys teams to join.

 

[optidiscic]

Anyone who qualifies can play

The USWDGC winner will be at Rock Hill but I doubt she will play but if she did I am sure she would not embaress herself or her gender

 

[kerplunk]

The only way in which the USDGC showcases a diversity of players is in the Performance Flight...women play that every year, even win it.

The Open Flight is strictly for the best of the best, period. There's no real reason to make exceptions for anyone.


No. They have the opportunity to qualify just like everyone else, be it at a qualifying event or on Monday.



That event was held last weekend in Ohio. Why repeat it?

Exceptions are already made for top 10 finishers from previous years. Also, if it were simply "best of the best" why not just determine qualifying by ranking rather than qualifying spots in tournaments? It seems the tournament structure is a way to increase geographical diversity in representation, especially given qualifying events in Australia, Sweden, and Finland. Also, I think beating half of the open field in the previous year qualifies as "best of the best."

As far as having equal chances to qualify, please read in the original post why it doesn't make sense for a woman to play MPO instead of FPO in many cases. So the chances to qualify aren't really equal.

And comparing the event in Ohio with the real USDGC is laughable. The courses and the atmosphere are way different, for a start.

 

[JC17393]

Exceptions are already made for top 10 finishers from previous years. Also, if it were simply "best of the best" why not just determine qualifying by ranking rather than qualifying spots in tournaments? It seems the tournament structure is a way to increase geographical diversity in representation, especially given qualifying events in Australia, Sweden, and Finland. Also, I think beating half of the open field in the previous year qualifies as "best of the best."

As far as having equal chances to qualify, please read in the original post why it doesn't make sense for a woman to play MPO instead of FPO in many cases. So the chances to qualify aren't really equal.

And comparing the event in Ohio with the real USDGC is laughable. The courses and the atmosphere are way different, for a start.

The top ten from the previous year aren't exceptions...they're QUALIFIERS. The first qualifier for the 2016 USDGC is the 2015 USDGC.

And absolutely the qualifying opportunities are equal for everyone. There is nothing stopping any woman from playing MPO at a qualifying event. Nothing. If she chooses not to (and given the various reasons, I can't blame any woman who makes that choice), that choice is hers. There's nothing unfair about it. The opportunity is there, period.

And how is the USWDGC not "real"? How is it "laughable"? What would you call the winner of a women's division at the USDGC? US Champ, no? So if they crown that at the USDGC, what's the purpose of the USWDGC? Or vice versa.

The US titles are pretty much the only case in disc golf where we are similar to our ball golf "cousins". They don't hold the US Open and US Women's Open (or the Senior Open or the Amateur Championship) at the same course at the same time. They are separate events at separate venues. I don't see why it can't continue to be the same way in disc golf as it's been for at least the last 10 years.

 

[kerplunk]

The top ten from the previous year aren't exceptions...they're QUALIFIERS. The first qualifier for the 2016 USDGC is the 2015 USDGC.

And absolutely the qualifying opportunities are equal for everyone. There is nothing stopping any woman from playing MPO at a qualifying event. Nothing. If she chooses not to (and given the various reasons, I can't blame any woman who makes that choice), that choice is hers. There's nothing unfair about it. The opportunity is there, period.

And how is the USWDGC not "real"? How is it "laughable"? What would you call the winner of a women's division at the USDGC? US Champ, no? So if they crown that at the USDGC, what's the purpose of the USWDGC? Or vice versa.

The US titles are pretty much the only case in disc golf where we are similar to our ball golf "cousins". They don't hold the US Open and US Women's Open (or the Senior Open or the Amateur Championship) at the same course at the same time. They are separate events at separate venues. I don't see why it can't continue to be the same way in disc golf as it's been for at least the last 10 years.

Your first point definitely makes sense.

As I mentioned before, I understand that women can technically try to qualify for the USDGC by playing MPO at qualifying events, I just would personally like to see it made a little easier for a woman to qualify without having to risk financial loss. Same with Monday qualifying really, it is not free to travel to SC and I think you have to pay a decent amount to play a qualifying round (correct me if I'm wrong). Obviously you and a lot of others don't agree, and I respect that.

As for how "real" the USWDGC is, go watch the final round and tell me how much that course reminds you of Winthrop Gold. And I said the idea of comparing it the the USDGC was laughable, not that the tournament itself was. Please don't take me out of context. I do think having a smaller FPO division at THE USDCG is an interesting idea.

As for "the same way in disc golf as it's been for at least the last 10 years," I believe a post earlier in this thread mentioned that there was a spot or two reserved for women before the introduction of the Performance Flight. So it seems the precedent was to have a woman invited before the introduction of the Performance flight, which was certainly less than ten years ago.

As I mentioned, I completely understand that is it technically possible for a woman to qualify in various ways, I would just personally like to see at least one spot reserved for a woman, and I was wondering what others thought. It looks like most don't agree, and I am fine with that.

 

[JC17393]

As I mentioned before, I understand that women can technically try to qualify for the USDGC by playing MPO at qualifying events, I just would personally like to see it made a little easier for a woman to qualify without having to risk financial loss. Same with Monday qualifying really, it is not free to travel to SC and I think you have to pay a decent amount to play a qualifying round (correct me if I'm wrong). Obviously you and a lot of others don't agree, and I respect that.

The same argument about financial loss and expensive travel to SC for Monday qualifying applies to everyone else that isn't an 1000+ rated player (and arguably some 1000 rated players as well), doesn't it? Why not an spot set aside for a Masters or Grandmasters age player? Climo had to take the "financial risk" and play Open in the last qualifying tournament just to get in. How about an Am spot? They used to invite the Am World and USADGC champs. I'm just not sure why a woman's spot means so much, but not these other players when the tournament is designed for every player to earn their way in against the best possible competition.

As for how "real" the USWDGC is, go watch the final round and tell me how much that course reminds you of Winthrop Gold. And I said the idea of comparing it the the USDGC was laughable, not that the tournament itself was. Please don't take me out of context. I do think having a smaller FPO division at THE USDCG is an interesting idea.

The course for the USADGC is irrelevant to the discussion, really, since it changes every year. Also, Winthrop Gold is designed for Gold level players. No woman is a Gold level player. The best course for them to determine a champion should be one better designed for their best players' skill level (950-970ish players). I don't know enough about the course in Ohio to know how that course compares, but it doesn't seem fair to compare it to Winthrop regardless.

As for "the same way in disc golf as it's been for at least the last 10 years," I believe a post earlier in this thread mentioned that there was a spot or two reserved for women before the introduction of the Performance Flight. So it seems the precedent was to have a woman invited before the introduction of the Performance flight, which was certainly less than ten years ago.

I wasn't referring to there being a place for a woman (or two) at the USDGC when I spoke of the last 10 years (btw, I was one of the ones who mentioned there being a spot or two reserved for women prior to the Performance flight), so please don't take me out of context. I was referring to your proposed idea of having a women's division (not a women's spot) at the USDGC and how that would conflict with the USWDGC as an independent event. For at least the last 10+ years, there has been a separate USWDGC as well as the USADGC and US Masters to determine US champions in various divisions. There's no reason at all for any of the divisions represented at those events to be held at Winthrop during the USDGC.

 

[kerplunk]

All very good points. The only thing I will disagree with is that I never mentioned a women's division until the last post. I think holding a spot in the Open division of the USDGC for the winner of the USWDGC would be cool, but I completely understand your point about other protected divisions. Although I think that may be cool as well, holding one or two spots for a master and grandmaster. I am not sure where you would draw the line though, maybe all "pro" divisions?

 

[JC17393]

All very good points. The only thing I will disagree with is that I never mentioned a women's division until the last post. I think holding a spot in the Open division of the USDGC for the winner of the USWDGC would be cool, but I completely understand your point about other protected divisions. Although I think that may be cool as well, holding one or two spots for a master and grandmaster. I am not sure where you would draw the line though, maybe all "pro" divisions?

My mistake. It was suggested in the thread, but not by you.

 

[nevets4433]

This is an open. There are open qualifiers. I don't think spots should be reserved for anything specific, woman/man/junior/senior whatever. Anyone that qualifies comes and plays. I don't think that artificially inserting different groups into the tournament just because of demographics is a good idea. This is a major competition, where the best need to come play - regardless of gender/creed/sex. Let the overall most qualified players compete.

 

[optidiscic]

Its an Open but it is also a showcase and allowing the top female in doesnt seem to a bad thing imo....

 

[Smigles]

Again, every tournament has that. All are welcome to play MPO. 770 rated transgender lefties to 1053 rated human robots can all sign up to play MPO.

That event was held last weekend in Ohio. Why repeat it?

That's all that needs to be said about this topic.

 

[Star Shark]

I think the Women's World Champ and perhaps Women's US Champ should get an auto in to the USDGC.