WORLD FIASCO

[scarpfish]

When it comes down between actual dues paying members who might attend Worlds and message board know it alls who proclaim what they think Worlds should be, who do you think the PDGA is going to listen to?

The thing is, there's only so many qualified pros out there compared to the rest of us.

 

[Rob Martin]

Not much to say really, is there? One woman. May or may not have bearing on this entire conversation.

The single women that played is the subject matter of the OP.

 

[araytx]

World Series of Poker

this might be the worst comparison i've seen this year on DGCR

Really??? Or maybe you've just not been on here a lot in the first 6 months.

Consider that we are a fringe leisure activity/sport/recreational outlet hoping to grasp more attention or validity from ESPN and big boy media, wanting for the legitimacy of that real All-American story, and for which only the very few diehards (like us) get on social media and Interweb forums and talk about like it's a significant part of life.

Oh yeah there's a BIG difference...:doh:

I am a lover of disc golf -- big time. But let's not make our hobby into something it's not. Maybe I should have used bowling as the example. My point is THERE ARE activities in this country where the top "pros" compete side-by-side with average Joes, so I would always vote not to change the "anyone who meets the minimal qualifications in any division gets to compete in Worlds" tradition. There are other tournaments where only top "pros" compete; no need to add another. Allow this one to keep its uniqueness. The Worlds format makes it special and unique. If people don't want this to be a disc golf "Major," then pick 4 others for the Grand Slam of disc golf. And if someone here thinks they can do Worlds better, get off your duff, get your own logistics worked out, and put in a bid as the TD.

 

[sidewinder22]

Really??? Or maybe you've just not been on here a lot in the first 6 months.

Consider that we are a fringe leisure activity/sport/recreational outlet hoping to grasp more attention or validity from ESPN and big boy media, wanting for the legitimacy of that real All-American story, and for which only the very few diehards (like us) get on social media and Interweb forums and talk about like it's a significant part of life.

Oh yeah there's a BIG difference...:doh:

I am a lover of disc golf -- big time. But let's not make our hobby into something it's not. Maybe I should have used bowling as the example. My point is THERE ARE activities in this country where the top "pros" compete side-by-side with average Joes, so I would always vote not to change the "anyone who meets the minimal qualifications in any division gets to compete in Worlds" tradition. There are other tournaments where only top "pros" compete; no need to add another. Allow this one to keep its uniqueness. The Worlds format makes it special and unique. If people don't want this to be a disc golf "Major," then pick 4 others for the Grand Slam of disc golf. And if someone here thinks they can do Worlds better, get off your duff, get your own logistics worked out, and put in a bid as the TD.

Average Joe doesn't have $10,000 to buy into the main event. If they satellite in then they have skill and are qualified. At any rate the $50,000 buy-in Horse event has become the staple event for the best of the best since the poker boom.

 

[scarpfish]

Something to ponder about poker going big time and any likelihood of disc golf doing the same. Men were playing poker of some variant for more than a full century before it became popular on television. It was only natural they would be entertained by seeing it played for high stakes.

Throwing plastic orbs at metal baskets? Not so much of a history outside of people who've been playing disc golf for a long time, and in our game a long time is probably what, 15 years maybe?

You also have to consider the role that online poker sites played in making that boom possible (before the government shut them down). Ordinary joes could buy into an online tournament against thousands of others like them without leaving their living rooms and possibly win enough money to buy a WSOP seat. This led to the belief of many that the dream was attainable, and for a select few, that dream came true. There is nothing we can do in disc golf that could possibly replicate that.

 

[araytx]

Average Joe doesn't have $10,000 to buy into the main event. If they satellite in then they have skill and are qualified. At any rate the $50,000 buy-in Horse event has become the staple event for the best of the best since the poker boom.

SHeesh, maybe you guys don't get my point. An "average Joe" at poker might just be able to afford that entry fee -- because he's a genius at Real Estate or banking or pharmaceuticals or whatever. So he's not the most skilled poker player on the table, but he's getting to play with the top pros.

And the Moneymaker feel-good story (which I love) was BOTH an average Joe at poker (read the book) AND an average Joe in real life. But if I make the kinda Keesh to afford to travel and I can get X # of points the previous year in disc golf, and I can register on time, then what's the argument against me playing with big boy top pros? There's only one event like that so let it be.

And to your second point (the HORSE) event, I agree there too. They're two different kinds of events. The $10,000 no-limit WSOP World Championship is for anybody who qualifies like our Worlds. The $50,000 HORSE event of poker pros is more like the USDGC. Just like them they already have a convention-like competition, so do we. They already have a top pros competition, so do we.

Wait, didn't somebody say I made the worst analogy ever?

 

[Loomis]

I'm still waiting on a comment regarding the stellar turn out for the Tulsa Master Women field.

Senor Herpes,

Des was signed up but dropped out when issues at home kept her from coming. Field minus 1.
Shelia decided to play a tournament in her backyard which she had been waiting a few years for. Field minus 2
Barrett was already signed up for an event and opted not to come. Field minus 3
Peg had a family obligation which eliminated her. Field minus 4
Kathy opted out, choosing to play an event in her backyard. Field minus 5
Tavis can't take that many days off from her job and couldn't make it. Field minus 6.

Two other women from Colorado opted to use their vacation time for Worlds and/or The Glass Blown. Field minus 7 and 8.

Most of the women who inspired this post were aware of the Worlds slight and had taken the stance that this was, "pretty typical PDGA bull sh*t." None of them are frequenters of this or any other site, and none of them are willing to push the PDGA because they see it as, "it's a boy's club run by ego-maniacs who still wish they could wear a letterman's jacket" and it wouldn't do any good.

Which is where I can come in. I have no issues stirring up the rank and file if it gets a conversation going. Of course, many conversations on this site are feckless and the outcome is predictable, but it's still nice to watch the birds scatter off the wire.

US Masters isn't Worlds.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Senor Herpes,

Des was signed up but dropped out when issues at home kept her from coming. Field minus 1.
Shelia decided to play a tournament in her backyard which she had been waiting a few years for. Field minus 2
Barrett was already signed up for an event and opted not to come. Field minus 3
Peg had a family obligation which eliminated her. Field minus 4
Kathy opted out, choosing to play an event in her backyard. Field minus 5
Tavis can't take that many days off from her job and couldn't make it. Field minus 6.

Two other women from Colorado opted to use their vacation time for Worlds and/or The Glass Blown. Field minus 7 and 8.

Most of the women who inspired this post were aware of the Worlds slight and had taken the stance that this was, "pretty typical PDGA bull sh*t." None of them are frequenters of this or any other site, and none of them are willing to push the PDGA because they see it as, "it's a boy's club run by ego-maniacs who still wish they could wear a letterman's jacket" and it wouldn't do any good.

Which is where I can come in. I have no issues stirring up the rank and file if it gets a conversation going. Of course, many conversations on this site are feckless and the outcome is predictable, but it's still nice to watch the birds scatter off the wire.

US Masters isn't Worlds.

are you saying that a tournamant designed for the protected division is less important than a meaningless title. especially when they arent even competing with the top competitors of their gender?

 

[sidewinder22]

SHeesh, maybe you guys don't get my point. An "average Joe" at poker might just be able to afford that entry fee -- because he's a genius at Real Estate or banking or pharmaceuticals or whatever. So he's not the most skilled poker player on the table, but he's getting to play with the top pros.

You don't see average joes playing in championship sporting events. There's other events for that called PRO-AMs.

And the Moneymaker feel-good story (which I love) was BOTH an average Joe at poker (read the book) AND an average Joe in real life. But if I make the kinda Keesh to afford to travel and I can get X # of points the previous year in disc golf, and I can register on time, then what's the argument against me playing with big boy top pros? There's only one event like that so let it be.

He satellited his way in and I don't think he's just average.

And to your second point (the HORSE) event, I agree there too. They're two different kinds of events. The $10,000 no-limit WSOP World CHampionship is for anybody who qualifies liek our Worlds. The $50,000 HORSE event of poker pros is liek the USDGC. Just like them they already have a convention-like competition, so do we. They already have a top pros competition, so do we.

It's not really different than the main event because anyone can still buy-in.

Wait, didn't somebody say I made the worst analogy ever?

Maybe not the worst, but not the best either. We are talking about sports, right? Not a table game.

 

[Hampstead]

Is the general consensus here that this is indeed a fiasco?

 

[Loomis]

are you saying that a tournamant designed for the protected division is less important than a meaningless title. especially when they arent even competing with the top competitors of their gender?

No. And the value of the title is subjective. What you see as meaningless may mean a lot to someone else.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

No. And the value of the title is subjective. What you see as meaningless may mean a lot to someone else.

but why? if not competing against the best. then its not really a title. now is it.


but at a Masters tournament. the Women Masters would be the top division. so the champ of that, would actually have something to brag about.


and to be honest. is winning a tournament, with a division of 8 or 10 really a big feat anyways? why dont they just play with the Pro Women (cant call it Open, since men cant play)

 

[Loomis]

but why? if not competing against the best. then its not really a title. now is it.


but at a Masters tournament. the Women Masters would be the top division. so the champ of that, would actually have something to brag about.


and to be honest. is winning a tournament, with a division of 8 or 10 really a big feat anyways? why dont they just play with the Pro Women (cant call it Open, since men cant play)

I see your point. What good is it for women to play in a division of their own versus just a gender specific one. Grandmasters, Legends, Children - age shouldn't matter. 4 year olds and 90 year olds and everyone in between playing in one division. That sounds good. Of course, why stop there? Why not just a single division for anyone with hands. There's no reason to split the world of disc golf into genders, we could just have a single division. Every single player, regardless of age or talent level (which means the end of that silly rating system) all grouped together. I'm sure that would be awesome.

I'm willing to advocate for this. Start a new thread and post your wisdom. I will back your play.

One division, everyone pays the same amount of cash, everyone gets consideration, first 1600 people who sign up get in, One trophy. Hopefully it won't be viewed as meaningless.

 

[DavidSauls]

Is the general consensus here that this is indeed a fiasco?

No, not even close.

 

[AndyJB]

but why? if not competing against the best. then its not really a title. now is it.



and to be honest. is winning a tournament, with a division of 8 or 10 really a big feat anyways? why dont they just play with the Pro Women (cant call it Open, since men cant play)

I dunno man, if I ever won a tournament with my pithy 833 rating I'd still brag, and I've only played two tournaments with a Rec division that more than 5 players.

Hell, I brag about playing In Intermediate and not coming in DFL.

Maybe that's just me.

 

[Matt B.]

No, not even close.

I can't believe anyone even cares any more. The situation boils down to: some FPM players refused to sign up for the World's waitlist because they didn't like the preliminary cap, thus giving no indication that the cap should be adjusted. The TD's and PDGA neglected to read their minds and now there's a thread on DGCR about it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Plus a lot of ideas of what Worlds could be, what worlds should be, ranging from "only the best of the best" to "make room for everyone who wants to come". A lot of ideas with at least some merit.

And the current system, flaws and all, which still has merits of its own, not the least of which being it seems to be what the membership, as a whole, wants.

The last thing you could say about this thread is that there's any kind of consensus.

 

[Chines]

And the current system, flaws and all, which still has merits of its own, not the least of which being it seems to be what the membership, as a whole, wants.

The last thing you could say about this thread is that there's any kind of consensus.

Food for thought. What does the majority of the members of the PDGA want from The Worlds tournament? Where do the members want to see this go? Do they want it to be a disc golf festival with anyone and everyone participating? Or do they want it to be the best of the best going at it to see who is the best disc golfer in the world?

 

[wkelly42]

Food for thought. What does the majority of the members of the PDGA want from The Worlds tournament?

I'm starting to think that all the members of the PDGA want to do is complain about what's going on, and how the PDGA should make it better.

 

[ohtobediscing]

I'm starting to think that all the members of the PDGA want to do is complain about what's going on, and how the PDGA should make it better.

Sounds like a political party or two we're all quite familiar with. :|

I couldn't care less. If you procrastinated, or you played some political BS, you got what you deserved, male, female, eunuch, or jackass.