- Joined
- Dec 21, 2009
- Messages
- 3,955
Agreed. I'm a noodle arm who has never been able to throw Wraiths but I can throw 163ish CD3s almost as far as my understable distance drivers.
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[Innova] Wraith vs cd3 vs surge
- Thread starter Moogerfooger98
- Start date
Agreed. I'm a noodle arm who has never been able to throw Wraiths but I can throw 163ish CD3s almost as far as my understable distance drivers.
PMantle
* Ace Member *
My one CD3 is indistinguishable from my Wraiths.
I have a couple of 2008 ESP Surges I got from Marshall Street about a year ago that are great but hesitate to rely on them for fear that Discraft is going to OOP them. Have tried a couple later ESP runs that were hit or miss. They've run plenty of other discs in the new ESP and Ti but not the Surge.
You can find Wraiths that run the gamut. I actually found a new Star that's about perfect for me from a local tourney. 167g, pretty flat and pretty firm, probably 11/5/-1/2.5 off the shelf. I bag a Champ for headwinds and a beat Star for max D all in the same weight range to go with it.
You can find Wraiths that run the gamut. I actually found a new Star that's about perfect for me from a local tourney. 167g, pretty flat and pretty firm, probably 11/5/-1/2.5 off the shelf. I bag a Champ for headwinds and a beat Star for max D all in the same weight range to go with it.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I can't even really explain why, but I find Surges to be less clunky than Wraiths. They seem to penetrate better and have better glide. I have a whole pile of ESP Surges that I've acquired through the years.
Maybe I need to try some more Wraiths, but I always thought that of those two molds the Surge was better. I'm also surprised the Archon doesn't get brought up in conversation more often when speed 11 discs are talked about. Its a good flier and (IMO) underrated.
SD86
Banned
DD Trespass is comfortable in the hand but is not as (over)stable as the Wraith. Trespass is a good mold, though, so it's a good suggestion as something to try in this "range" of molds...
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Polecats are nuteral/undersable right out of the box if I am not mistaken. Just Stay way from R-Pro unless getting them in a store as the plastic varies so much.
SD86
Banned
Wrong thread, perhaps?
I've had luck with the Surge in ESP. It's always seemed like a solid mold to me, and I particularly like the high speed stability (holds in headwinds and downhills but likes to stay straight) with nice forward, nondumpy fade.
Yes Polecats are awesome too. I'd need a pretty rockin' tailwind to get one as far as a Surge.
Yes Polecats are awesome too. I'd need a pretty rockin' tailwind to get one as far as a Surge.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I agree the Trespass is fairly similar to a Wraith. I think its at least one speed faster though. I get quite a bit more distance out of Trespasses than I do Wraiths. More glide too.
I think the Trespass is a fairly good choice for anyone looking for their first 12 speed driver. Pretty mellow flight and it will fly for days if you crush it.
SD86
Banned
Definitely was, and he posted to the correct thread.
I think the Trespass fits in this discussion, as well. I've thrown Surges, Wraiths, and now Trespass'. IMO its more comfortable in the hand than then the others, although it is shallow and some may not like that. An acquired taste. Easy distance.
Maybe a tick faster than a wraith, but comes out of the hand clean. Definitely a (11-12)/(5)/(-1)/(2-3) flight, depending on the disc.
Maybe a tick faster than a wraith, but comes out of the hand clean. Definitely a (11-12)/(5)/(-1)/(2-3) flight, depending on the disc.
^ If anything, Renegade fits more cleanly into the "Speed 11" discussion. However, IMO, it doesn't bring anything to the table that can't already be handled by CD3 and Krait (and beat/pro Wraith).
SD86
Banned
Agree, but the Renegade is also more understable than the CD3 and Krait, and the Renegade will season in to even more understability...
Yep, that was my experience as well. Got a Renegade at a Trilogy Challenge because, per the numbers, it would be a flippy-ish Wraith right out of the box. It was! And flew fine...for like 5 rounds. Then it became useless pretty quickly. A beat Wraith will settle into a sweet spot of usable understability for me, whereas the Renegade just kept rolling (literally) into a realm of paper-plate uselessness.
ThomasOrion
* Ace Member *
I've used Wraiths, Surges, Krait, Trespass and a Thrasher (kinda in that realm) have not used a CD3 tho
I found the Surge most US, then Thrasher (in Z max weight tho, its a great disc, but I think new runs and diff plastics are more US maybe?), The TRESPASS and KRAIT were similar, I have a glow trespass that flies great like 11/5/-1/2 but I got a fusion and it was super flippy so idk, the Wraith seems to be the most OS typically unless its a beat star. If you want some turn but reliable and not too flippy I'll say try GLOW TRESPASS or MF KRAIT or a max weight STAR WRAITH, if you want more flip, THRASHER is good (surge I think is too inconsistent, unless maybe Z?)
I found the Surge most US, then Thrasher (in Z max weight tho, its a great disc, but I think new runs and diff plastics are more US maybe?), The TRESPASS and KRAIT were similar, I have a glow trespass that flies great like 11/5/-1/2 but I got a fusion and it was super flippy so idk, the Wraith seems to be the most OS typically unless its a beat star. If you want some turn but reliable and not too flippy I'll say try GLOW TRESPASS or MF KRAIT or a max weight STAR WRAITH, if you want more flip, THRASHER is good (surge I think is too inconsistent, unless maybe Z?)
MANBURGARLAR
Eagle Member
Ive got a domey ESP surge 170g that is quite stable. Then I have a big Z thrasher which is an insta roller basically. Haven't tried a wraith or CD3 however.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
That's the difference between the Surge and Renegade. A Surge will be a stable driver for a long, long, long time. We're talking years. The Renegade starts flippy and gets even worse. I literally couldn't even throw the thing flat no matter what I tried. Flip city.
A Trespass would be a step up from a CD3 or Surge. A tick faster and longer for me. Same general stability though.
My scd3 is definitely more stable than my opto trespass. The speed feels pretty similar but the flight does not at my arm speed. The cd3 seems to fly a lot like my wraith, just a tick less stable.
Where my tresspass feels more neutral
SD86
Banned
Agree on the Trespass. it's surprisingly good for noodle arms (myself being one of them). The flight numbers are similar to the Destroyer, but the Trespass is less stable and easier (for noodle arms) to throw.
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