Star Shark
* Ace Member *
There was a tournament a couple years ago where Sergio Garcia climbed the tree and played his shot out of the tree rather than taking the penalty stroke for the drop.
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2 meter rule ... ranting on FB
- Thread starter Aim For The Chains
- Start date
There was a tournament a couple years ago where Sergio Garcia climbed the tree and played his shot out of the tree rather than taking the penalty stroke for the drop.
Curious as to what you mean by travel anywhere and know the rules.
Traveling to a random course for fun and playing it...who cares what the local rules are, you can play it how you want (at least as far as 2-m goes). No one is going to penalize you for playing it "wrong".
Traveling to a random course and playing a tournament...if you don't know how they want you to play the 2-meter rule at any given tournament, either it's not in play (default is that it is not) or they'll tell you that it is. If you're not willing to listen (or read) to find out, that's on you not the rule book.
I've said it before (maybe in this thread), but I'll say it again, I think the current incarnation of the 2-meter rule is PERFECT. It allows for the regions/courses that want to have it in play to do so, and it allows for the regions/courses that don't to not have it. It is a rule that can be effective in some instances and is needless in others. Now you don't have to take the bad to get the good or miss the good to avoid the bad. Best of all worlds.
Perhaps what the OP originally is looking for is that "...if it's a rule it's a rule for all, and if not then it's not...". The only reason the 2m O.B. "rule" is even talked about now is that a) it's still used some places and more importantly b) is WAS a rule at one time. If it never was it would never be talked about. Presently I (as a mythical TD) could evoke a 1.5m O.B. rule if I wished - as long as all participants knew of it beforehand, etc. And this goes for all the other things mentioned by David, Josh, etc. I'm thinking that since local rules can be added to any "situation" (tournament or casual) - some probably needing the PDGA's OK and some not (depending on sanctioning) - the OP is looking for the rules to be written in such a way as to ONLY mention those that are ALWAYS in effect...and let non-rules be evoked per the TD, etc. This may or may not be a tough nut to crack.
Yes. Though the nut might be a little easier to crack if they did away with any mention of the 2-meter rule, so that it never applied.
But I'm with JC---the current option makes it available when desirable or wanted, without imposing it where it's not. Best of all worlds, if you can live with the regional variations of how often it's used, which I can.
But I'm with JC---the current option makes it available when desirable or wanted, without imposing it where it's not. Best of all worlds, if you can live with the regional variations of how often it's used, which I can.
The 2m rule is NOT an OB rule. Not, not, NOT OB. Referring to it as such only leads to more confusion. Two separate rules, two separate means of dealing with the situation. The only thing they have in common is the penalty. If that's all it takes, might as well call missing a mandatory OB and losing a disc OB too.
Sorry, pet peeve. Can't resist pointing it out. Again.
Having said that, if anything in the book should be changed along the lines of "always in effect" vs "in effect at the discretion of the TD", perhaps the OB rule and the mandatory rule should be moved to the discretionary section with the 2m rule. After all, they're all only invoked at the discretion of the TD/course designer. Why single out the 2m rule?
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
The 2m rule needs to be in the rules and singled out for two reasons:
a) so that it doesn't require going to the Tour Manager for an exception to use it (that's why it must be listed).
b) because it is frequently used for all throws. It would be more cumbersome to put it in the normal section and still have it read as a "only at TDs discretion." Much simpler to list it in the discretionary section. My guess also is that when the 2m finished dying its slow death it would be more easy to cut from the rules.
And I second the point that the 2m rule is not OB.
a) so that it doesn't require going to the Tour Manager for an exception to use it (that's why it must be listed).
b) because it is frequently used for all throws. It would be more cumbersome to put it in the normal section and still have it read as a "only at TDs discretion." Much simpler to list it in the discretionary section. My guess also is that when the 2m finished dying its slow death it would be more easy to cut from the rules.
And I second the point that the 2m rule is not OB.
Perhaps Karl meant that he could declare everything above 1.5 meters to be O.B.? Not use the 2-meter rule---but declare all that air space O.B.
It may not have been officially listed as "O.B." but I've heard it dozens of times by dozens of TDs over the years - "If your disc comes to rest 2m above the playing surface you're O.B. Mark directly beneath the disc, then get your disc down and proceed with play from there...with a stroke penalty". THEY (the TDs) always mentioned it as "O.B." (right or wrong - but perception IS reality). So, to them, ANYTHING over 2m above the playing surface WAS an O.B. territory...and if your disc was up there, YOU were O.B. May not have been it 'technically' but it COULD have been (remember, TDs can call anything they want O.B.). And of course it gets back to the discussion of dg NOT having different 'penalty situations' (as does bg) such as O.B., hazard, lateral hazard, lost ball, etc.
I think it would be simpler if they did away with mentioning it altogether IF they (the PDGA) wished to NOT have it (and let the TDs who do want it request a waver...for a 2m, 1.5m, bears are off-limits, and any other arcane / weird "rule" they wish to evoke). In bg, they used to play and have in the rules the concept of "stymie". It no longer is in the rule book because they don't play that any more. Etc.
I think it would be simpler if they did away with mentioning it altogether IF they (the PDGA) wished to NOT have it (and let the TDs who do want it request a waver...for a 2m, 1.5m, bears are off-limits, and any other arcane / weird "rule" they wish to evoke). In bg, they used to play and have in the rules the concept of "stymie". It no longer is in the rule book because they don't play that any more. Etc.
Agreed. It shouldn't be singed out. I'm guessing the OP's trying to get only "always rules" to be the only ones mentioned.
Just because everyone gets it wrong doesn't make it right.
OB is OB, and suspended over 2 meters is suspended over 2 meters. If one were to take a TD literally if he said "over 2 (or 1.5 or 5) meters is OB" then one could try to apply OB procedures to a suspended disc. Where would the last in-bounds option be, because I want to mark my lie there?
loki the trickster
Birdie Member
Actually the 2 meter is a boundary rule to state where a boundary is. If your 2meters up a tree then your not within the boundaries of play. You may not think of it that way but place the 2 meter rule in effect and you get a boundary that says above this is out of bounds.
The whole of moving rules to leaving things up to different TD is the issue at hand! The 2M rule is something simple the the PDGA board could simply keep... or do away with.
A mandatory is part of course design. And while a TD can place new mandatorys to challenge golfers durring a tournament. the way in which a mandatory gets played is universal in that if you miss it then you miss it, you dont get to add a stroke and play from where your disc landed. For the most part amd in most cases a mandatory is used to keep golfers on another fairway or non golfing public safe.
As for the ob moving to up to TD why? Its part of the course design. Yes a TD can chose to use it or if its dry clam it as casual. The rules for casual relief are stated how to play it.
Again it would be easier for the PDGA to have the 2M rule killed or kept altogether.
Hate to break it to you, but the 2m penalty is a part of course design just as mandatories and OB are. The rule for 2m, just as the rules for mandos and OB, tells you how to proceed (where to play from and how many penalty throws to add) but the TD tells you where and when the rule is applicable.
Nothing in the rule book determines what is and isn't OB. Nothing in the rule book determines what is and isn't a mandatory. Nothing in the rule book determines when being over 2m is penalized and when it is not. All of those determinations and decisions are left to the course designer and/or the TD.
Above 2m is a boundary only if the TD makes it so. Just as a rope line or a river's edge or a fence represents an OB boundary only if the TD makes it so. Just as a tree or a pole or a building represents a mandatory only if the TD makes it so. Otherwise, above 2m is just above 2m and a fence is just a fence and a tree is just a tree.
Under the disc that's stuck in the tree. That's where it went in so that's where it's played.
Everyone is wrong but you? That's doubtful. And just because it's your "pet peeve" doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.
If above the 2 meter "line" is OB, then the last point in-bounds would be the last time the disc in motion/flight was at 1.99m or less, would it not? Unless the disc bounced straight up from the ground to end up in a tree, directly below the disc would not be the last place it was "in-bounds".
If a disc suspended over 2 meters was supposed to be considered/called out of bounds, the rule would be part of the OB rule. Separate rules mean it's not the same thing. Calling it such is wrong. This has nothing to do with me. Rules are rules. Let's not confuse and conflate them.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
Yeah, kind of tough to apply one meter perpendicular to the OB line when the OB line is 2 meters above the playing surface.
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A TD cannot declare that everything above 2m is OB. The definition only allows for OB to be an area, and everything on, above, and below that area is OB.
Also, the 2m rule references the OB rule, making it clear that playing a disc per the 2m rule is different than playing it per the OB rule.
Also, the 2m rule references the OB rule, making it clear that playing a disc per the 2m rule is different than playing it per the OB rule.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
Keep in mind that there are a whole bunch of variations for OB and Hazard rules in regular golf. Disc golf just seems to be evolving in that direction now. I'm not sure if within regular golf's rules that the td has say as to which variant on the rule is played on a given hole or for a tourney, but since I've seen several different applications of it on the same course, I'd say it's by hole.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
2m is pretty common in central Ohio. Any tournament with Paul Jay (Mr ZZ Top) as TD will usually have it.
FWIW, I don't have a problem with the rule.
FWIW, I don't have a problem with the rule.
curveball4
* Ace Member *
Dumbest........rule..........ever
