[Innova] Any Sidewinder Love?

[@CD-]

Distance wise they probably went a little over 300. Started them on a little hyzer...throwing them on a 330' hole where I normally hyzer flip an Escape...possible I didn't hit it hard enough because I was anticipating it to flip more.

Also keep in mind that I'm throwing them flat for around 340-360 feet, and am playing at 700' elevation. People at higher altitudes will find them more overstable.

Definitely think Star/Champ Innova 9 speeds have to be thrown with a minimum 350' of power to match the turn number but they are generally a tick or two more low speed stable (+1-2 fade) off the shelf. It takes probably 40-60 throws to knock the new off and reduce that low speed stability unless the flashing was removed/trimmed well from the factory. Go play a round or 3 with only the new SW as your driver to break it in. I found those kinds of rounds really develop an understanding of the flight for a specific disc.

I like RR and Valk/OLS for hyzer flip, turnovers, and BH roller shots in this speed range. Am I missing anything not trying the SW? The ones I've felt in store are generally flatter/thinner profile than RRs from what I remember.

 

[ray1970]

Team no bead and despite throwing mine in Star and Champ, a lot, I have yet to find one at -3. That forces me to carry a hatchet at all times.

I actually bag a Hatchet right now and it flies pretty close to the turn/fade that Innova stamps on the Sidewinder. I knew a fresh star Sidewinder wasn't going to be Hatchet level flippy but I thought it would be a little flippy and eventually beat in to Hatchet level flippiness.

 

[Gandalf]

All I am saying is that the Sidewinder (which I love and is a wonderful disc) does NOT have a BEED!
If yours does, then it's not a sidewinder.
The long blowhard post is all garbage.
If your sidewinder has a beed you should sand or cut it off. It's a manufacturing defect.
Roadrunners have a small beed.
Heats have a small bead.
Express? Sure it has a beed.
Sidewinder? Heck no. No beed!

 

[wolfhaley]

I just looked at 6 different Sidewinders. Kinda looks like they have a "micro bead". I throw Roadrunners and never noticed it. Looks just like the sidewinders though. I'll bead damned.

 

[ray1970]

I can actually see both sides of the micro bead debate. I never noticed it but it definitely shows up if you look close. Not sure if it is technically a bead or just a weird rim shape at the inside edge.

 

[elmexdela]

alright you chumps

to set the record straight cuz clearly some of yall need some education

i cut to the chase and emailed innova pro shop who promptly responded with

"The sidewinder does not utilize a microbead, but due to its structure, it can often come with a bit of excess material on the bottom of the disc. This typically goes away after the first few uses as it spins on the ground."

 

[PMantle]

I checked the discs in my car and lots of Innova drivers have that non-bead.

 

[ray1970]

alright you chumps

to set the record straight cuz clearly some of yall need some education

i cut to the chase and emailed innova pro shop who promptly responded with

"The sidewinder does not utilize a microbead, but due to its structure, it can often come with a bit of excess material on the bottom of the disc. This typically goes away after the first few uses as it spins on the ground."

The non beaded bead on the blue one I posted above likely isn't going to be gone after "a few uses". Even with the mostly dirt, gravel, and rocky courses I play it would take months to grind it off.

 

[discerdoo]

alright you chumps

to set the record straight cuz clearly some of yall need some education

i cut to the chase and emailed innova pro shop who promptly responded with

"The sidewinder does not utilize a microbead, but due to its structure, it can often come with a bit of excess material on the bottom of the disc. This typically goes away after the first few uses as it spins on the ground."

i guarantee thats a quote from innova cuz elmex dont do capital letters or punctuation

 

[PMantle]

Have we established that there are multiple molds?

 

[twistedraven]

So I decided to break out the macro lens for my Sony. Here are some extreme closeups of a Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Thunderbird, and Firebird. People can come away with their own conclusions. These pictures are high resolution, so you can open them in a separate window/tab to see them in full size.

Color Glow Roadrunner. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow. There is a very miniscule amount of flashing beyond the raise, as indicated by a very sharp looking line.

Color Glow Sidewinder. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow (and light from the shades warping upwards). There is a larger amount of flashing as indicated by the very well defined and sharp wall/line.

Color Glow Firebird. There is no raise/bump as indicated by a lack of shadow. Instead, there is a plateau, or flattening of the inner edge of the rim. There is still a very tiny amount of flashing as indicated by the sharp line. To my hands, this disc feels free of flashing and completely smooth.

Star Thunderbird. Just like the Firebird, there is no raise/bump before the flashing, just a flat section or plateau. There is a very well defined small bit of flashing as indicated by the sharp and well defined line.

The photos show the Firebird and Thunderbird to have no small raise/bump, while the Roadrunner and Sidewinder do. Also according to the photos, the Sidewinder has the most flashing, followed by the Thunderbird, then the Roadrunner, and last with the Firebird, which felt extremely smooth in my hand and void of flashing. Of interesting note is that I actually found the Thunderbird to feel like a razorblade in hand, moreso than the Sidewinder, even though the Sidewinder has more flashing. I think this is because the Star plastic of the Thunderbird is stiffer/harder than the more supple and gummy Champion Color Glow of the Sidewinder.

 

[discerdoo]

So I decided to break out the macro lens for my Sony. Here are some extreme closeups of a Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Thunderbird, and Firebird. People can come away with their own conclusions. These pictures are high resolution, so you can open them in a separate window/tab to see them in full size.

Color Glow Roadrunner. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow. There is a very miniscule amount of flashing beyond the raise, as indicated by a very sharp looking line.

Color Glow Sidewinder. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow (and light from the shades warping upwards). There is a larger amount of flashing as indicated by the very well defined and sharp wall/line.

Color Glow Firebird. There is no raise/bump as indicated by a lack of shadow. Instead, there is a plateau, or flattening of the inner edge of the rim. There is still a very tiny amount of flashing as indicated by the sharp line. To my hands, this disc feels free of flashing and completely smooth.

Star Thunderbird. Just like the Firebird, there is no raise/bump before the flashing, just a flat section or plateau. There is a very well defined small bit of flashing as indicated by the sharp and well defined line.

The photos show the Firebird and Thunderbird to have no small raise/bump, while the Roadrunner and Sidewinder do. Also according to the photos, the Sidewinder has the most flashing, followed by the Thunderbird, then the Roadrunner, and last with the Firebird, which felt extremely smooth in my hand and void of flashing. Of interesting note is that I actually found the Thunderbird to feel like a razorblade in hand, moreso than the Sidewinder, even though the Sidewinder has more flashing. I think this is because the Star plastic of the Thunderbird is stiffer/harder than the more supple and gummy Champion Color Glow of the Sidewinder.

That's just Innova QC, deal with it.

 

[twistedraven]

That's just Innova QC, deal with it.

In regards to the flashing, yes. In regards to the tiny bump, no. All of my Sidewinders have it. I'd call that very consistent.

 

[isamoor]

Thanks for sharing sirs.

I too don't think a sidewinder was intended to have a bead. I have definitely felt sidewinders with bad flashing however. And bad enough flashing can add a full "point" of stability.

Roadrunners on the other hand do seem to be intended to have a microbead (based on my own exposure to them).

My experience with sidewinders is that a fresh, 175g star/champ with flashing sanded off ends even/straight around 350'. Using it enough to knock and scratch it up gets it to the point it can turn more than fade at around 325'. (Sea level-ish).

 

[elmexdela]

So I decided to break out the macro lens for my Sony. Here are some extreme closeups of a Roadrunner, Sidewinder, Thunderbird, and Firebird. People can come away with their own conclusions. These pictures are high resolution, so you can open them in a separate window/tab to see them in full size.

Color Glow Roadrunner. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow. There is a very miniscule amount of flashing beyond the raise, as indicated by a very sharp looking line.

Color Glow Sidewinder. Notice the small raise/bump as indicated by the shadow (and light from the shades warping upwards). There is a larger amount of flashing as indicated by the very well defined and sharp wall/line.

Color Glow Firebird. There is no raise/bump as indicated by a lack of shadow. Instead, there is a plateau, or flattening of the inner edge of the rim. There is still a very tiny amount of flashing as indicated by the sharp line. To my hands, this disc feels free of flashing and completely smooth.

Star Thunderbird. Just like the Firebird, there is no raise/bump before the flashing, just a flat section or plateau. There is a very well defined small bit of flashing as indicated by the sharp and well defined line.

The photos show the Firebird and Thunderbird to have no small raise/bump, while the Roadrunner and Sidewinder do. Also according to the photos, the Sidewinder has the most flashing, followed by the Thunderbird, then the Roadrunner, and last with the Firebird, which felt extremely smooth in my hand and void of flashing. Of interesting note is that I actually found the Thunderbird to feel like a razorblade in hand, moreso than the Sidewinder, even though the Sidewinder has more flashing. I think this is because the Star plastic of the Thunderbird is stiffer/harder than the more supple and gummy Champion Color Glow of the Sidewinder.

this is the stuff i come to dgcr for

do you have a high res photo of a seasoned/beat sw (or one with no flashing)

 

[twistedraven]

this is the stuff i come to dgcr for

do you have a high res photo of a seasoned/beat sw (or one with no flashing)

A really beat-up Dynasty is the best thing I have. Dynasty is the old CD2 mold, which sports a Sidewinder bottom and Anhyzer top. The 4 discs above are brand new and never thrown. This one is several months old and I've beat it up pretty good, in addition to sanding off the bottom flashing when I decided I was going to bag it. Out of the box it flew like a -1/2 for me, and now it flies like a -2/1. It also still has the small raise/bump just before the edge of its rim, as evidence by the shadow. However it's very smoothed over at this point. Different photo session, so unfortunately I couldn't exactly replicate the lighting and angle of the other 4.

 

[isamoor]

I was on my phone during my last posts. Based on those awesome pics.... I'd agree the sidewinder bottom does have something like a bead. Now I'm going to go look at the few I have with my poor normal eyes and see what it looks like without that fancy tech. I can definitely see the roadrunner bead with my own eyes in normal lighting.

The pics also match my experience that the Sidewinder and Thunderbird have more flashing than most. (With the sidewinder being the most egregious.) But I realize this is only a small sample size.

And I'm not personally bothered by flashing (I just sand it off), but it does make me a little sad to have to explain about it and why you'd want to remove it over and over to noobs.

 

[elmexdela]

A really beat-up Dynasty is the best thing I have. Dynasty is the old CD2 mold, which sports a Sidewinder bottom and Anhyzer top. The 4 discs above are brand new and never thrown. This one is several months old and I've beat it up pretty good, in addition to sanding off the bottom flashing when I decided I was going to bag it. Out of the box it flew like a -1/2 for me, and now it flies like a -2/1. It also still has the small raise/bump just before the edge of its rim, as evidence by the shadow. However it's very smoothed over at this point. Different photo session, so unfortunately I couldn't exactly replicate the lighting and angle of the other 4.

ill be dammed

i have been throwin sw since you could get pfn fresh off the shelf (and reference to pmantle which is correct there are multiple molds)

i never felt or saw the little micromicrobead that is some impressive awareness

most of my sw come with nasty flashing so i grind them off on teepads before throwing them

 

[wolfhaley]

alright you chumps

to set the record straight cuz clearly some of yall need some education

i cut to the chase and emailed innova pro shop who promptly responded with

"The sidewinder does not utilize a microbead, but due to its structure, it can often come with a bit of excess material on the bottom of the disc. This typically goes away after the first few uses as it spins on the ground."

Did you ask them why some Beasts fly like the numbers and some fly like 10 speed Firebirds? They'd probably give you an answer that would smell like excess material out of their bottom.

 

[Gandalf]

Did you ask them why some Beasts fly like the numbers and some fly like 10 speed Firebirds? They'd probably give you an answer that would smell like excess material out of their bottom.

You know there are two Beast molds, right?