Breaking Bad Timing Habit

[Melonhusk]

More videos, hope I got the rear foot distance better this time. My front foot placement was kind of all over the place; it looks to me like things probably looked the best in the "west" video.








I also got some throws today, and they felt a bit better than last time I threw, though my hips look a little dead. It feels almost impossible for me to keep my head from turning back before everything else at the moment, but I did my best!

 

[sidewinder22]

Transition looks a lot smoother on the throw!

On DFD, you need to play around with the rear foot placement some more while holding on. Find a rear foot position where you can hang from the frame comfortably/relaxed for some period of time and you can easily move the rear foot back or forth without much pressure on it. You should feel your rear hammy/glute medius burning while you hang more static.

 

[Melonhusk]

After doing some more doorframe I thought I had a better handle on how to put it into the throw, unfortunately looks like I let my front hip drop and wound up going over the top. I was mainly focusing on getting my butt moving out in front and not reaching too far with my front leg, and I think I did make progress there, maybe it's just the hip tilt that's ruining things?

I was going to hold off on posting and try again today but temperatures are taking a turn for the worse, so I figured I might as well. I was also trying to experiment with my left arm:







which I realized seems to be really crucial to getting my right arm internally rotating, particularly it seems like internally rotating my left shoulder is a catalyst for my right shoulder doing the same. That could be not true, or only partially true, but there seems to be a relationship at least.
I sort of lost the feel for the swim move style thing I was doing, so I played around with a more GG style move where the arm is pinned behind, plus a Drew Gibson looking thing where the arm jabs down. I'm noticing more and more how much of an effect that back shoulder has; I can't quite do anything consistently enough to take advantage yet but the experimentation seems to be going somewhere!

 

[sidewinder22]

IMO punching or jabbing with the left arm is not what you want nor what Drew does. It's not a final destination, it's a continuous reciprocal flow like swimming.

Your rear leg is pushing/tipping your upper body over top, instead of moving underneath you. I would focus on the rear elbow to rear hip to help shift the hips forward and dragging the rear foot forward on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m40s

 

[Melonhusk]

Thanks! Yeah I'm definitely not capturing the full effect with any of the left arm styles I've tried, anything I do is better than not focusing on it at all but something has yet to click. I definitely see what you mean with the back leg, I'll focus on the shift underneath.

 

[Melonhusk]

I once again thought I had stumbled onto the right lower body feel, and once again it doesn't seem to have worked too good in practice. I was playing around in the doorframe and found if I not only sat towards the target but also towards my heels things felt much more powerful, and I stopped falling over to the left side of the "teepad" while hanging onto the frame. Here were a couple notable attempts with a disc, trying also to do the toe drag and elbow to hip thing:



I don't know what happened with my knee/ankle here, it didn't hurt, but it doesn't look great on camera.

My front hip started to drop so I tried to really keep it in the air.




Still felt like my back leg was getting too extended with front hip going past front knee, seems to be one of my main issues right now. This one looks like it has the "hinge in the ankle" problem too?


I felt towards the end like my attempts were just getting worse and worse so I decided to just film myself trying to throw it as far as I could with the muscle memory I already had.



Still definitely going over the top a bit, plus my upper body just going every which way, but maybe still the cleanest overall.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are striding/extending too far off the rear leg and your front leg is collapsing. Need to stick your front leg quicker/harder into the ground like you want to reverse direction like Barry Sanders.

Compact the shift, more sudden pressure shift - ride the bull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[Melonhusk]

Small but meaningful progress I think - I realized a big problem has been the back hip hinge again, relaxing that hip makes it a lot easier to get my hips ahead of my body which makes it a lot easier to get my foot down earlier. Even though things were far from perfect, even just getting my plant foot down early made things feel a lot better, like I actually had time to make a relaxed swing instead of everything happening all at once out of control.





It looks to me like what I'm missing is that I'm still not really shifting my weight? Like I'm finally getting my front leg on the ground, but maybe I still haven't gotten the hang of shifting my weight to it yet.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are tipping/pushing your upper body over top instead of going into tilted spiral.

 

[Melonhusk]

I worked on a couple different things and they brought me to a couple different places. Focusing on relaxing my back hip and getting my front foot down definitely helped, especially when I focused on kicking the can underneath my body, but my upper body is still pretty bad. Disc rotating wrong way, head turning too early, going over top, etc.







I feel like at times my lower body is starting to look ok, so I'm not sure if this is a problem I can isolate to my upper body approach? Or maybe my lower body is still not where it needs to be, I'm not sure!



Anyway, I tried to focus on the tilted spiral, or at least how I understand it. I still struggle there with not going over the top as well, and really with the feel of the whole thing. I think today (tilted spiral 3) I was beginning to get it, maybe? It's hard to say when there are so many fires to put out.

 

[sidewinder22]

Still extending your rear knee into the plant instead of flexing/falling. Upstream you have no push off your right foot, so I think you are trying to push off the left instead to make up for lack of momentum. Your left foot also kind of steps in the way of the right foot.

 

[Melonhusk]

I tried to work on flexing/falling into my plant, and man is my body confused about this right now. I see the difference clearly now I think, whenever I see pro technique vs all the video I've gotten of myself in recent memory, but I can't say I have a good feel for how to do what they do. It seems like my biggest issue is that I have trouble with keeping my upper body from rotating open as I switch from one leg to the other. It's like I'm already opening up and going over the top the second I start the move. Here's the throw where I think I got the closest, though it still didn't feel that good.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your x-step is so small and light footed, there's no real point to it, it slows you down.
Do some old Ulibarri/Moser crow hop, get some force going into the rear foot.

 

[Melonhusk]

My body did not want to cooperate with the uli hop, but I did make some progress I think in getting more momentum going!





I was pretty leaned back I know, but even still that felt a lot better. Throws felt a lot more rhythmic and effortless. Unfortunately, still going over the top looks like. It seems like there's some bad cue my body has for what happens after the plant - my head starts leaning targetward and craning around, and other stuff I can see but can't really articulate. The difference between this:

and this

looms large in my mind, just not sure what to tell my body to do different. I try to think of coming through with the disc "from my center", rather than head first, but that hasn't really worked for me yet.

 

[Brychanus]

I found all of these helpful in the x-step and maintaining + growing momentum and mitigate leaning back:

-Door frame drill - clean it up, then drop off the frame. Teaches body to generate power w/ momentum + gravity.
-Hershyzer drill - feel the leverage from rear leg in transition and get comfortable adding more and more momentum.
-Currently: kick the ball/can x-step move. Get comfortable shifting closed/ "from behind" and force your body to learn balance landing in the crush with more momentum. This one in particular is helping my body swing in as a unit and drop into the crush with better tilt.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

I tried to work on flexing/falling into my plant, and man is my body confused about this right now. I see the difference clearly now I think, whenever I see pro technique vs all the video I've gotten of myself in recent memory, but I can't say I have a good feel for how to do what they do. It seems like my biggest issue is that I have trouble with keeping my upper body from rotating open as I switch from one leg to the other. It's like I'm already opening up and going over the top the second I start the move. Here's the throw where I think I got the closest, though it still didn't feel that good.

Exaggerate your movement.

 

[Melonhusk]

I noticed some pros, particularly GG, do a little "pop" with their left leg to get on top of their right leg at the start of the x-step, to get the momentum going a little easier. I realized I've been starting my x-step from behind my right leg, and having trouble getting forward rather than upward momentum. Made the switch, still looks a smidge awkward but I think it did help my balance!



Everything x-step onwards still looks pretty rough obviously. Looks like if I could just sit towards the target a bit longer, and then kick the can suddenly instead of reaching I might be in better shape.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, that looks really rough on the plant leg, you have no rise/pivot on it into balanced finish. Note how your femurs are more horizontal. Eagle is standing up on front hip into finish and rear femur is hanging straight down from pelvis.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

 

[Melonhusk]

It took me a little while (and a lot of knee soreness) but I think I worked through the weird plant. For some reason that feeling of getting really deep and relaxed into my front hip, I guess probably it's what's meant by "clearing the hips", has become conscious instead of automatic. Finally noticed what exactly I was doing different going back through old videos, and now I'm back to standstills trying to nail it down again.




I'm also still just incredibly stuck on how to swing the disc. Just seems like no matter what I do I can't get the disc wing to rotate correctly. The best results currently seem to come when I sort of "preset" my arm internally rotated.



but that's not fantastic either. I probably need to start focusing left arm again, seems like it's not really possible to throw well while my left arm is just whipping around my body.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you need to work on your right arm/lat/grip and posture/balance. Your thumb is way out to the middle of the disc, I get massive nose up when I do that, I keep my thumb right against the inside rim.

Your posture/stance and arm/disc and head are backwards to mine and taking a massive stride forward without shifting much mass back in backswing/static. Your stride is so long that your arm/disc start dropping well before you plant.

Note how shift more mass back to initiate the heavier backswing and I am in more chest over knees/athletic posture and trying to spread the earth apart with my feet and taking a much smaller stride while my arm/disc continue rising into the plant.