[Innova] champ sidewinder variations

[art_vandelay]

The fact that threads and sporting goods equipment like this actually exist is annoying and discouraging. How many other sports would let their manufacturers get away with this kind of stuff? "Here's a brand new baseball son...we're not exactly sure what it's going to do when you throw it...try it a few times...if it does not do what you need come on back and buy another one". I'm not sure the major manufactures even care a little. They know people are going to keep buying stuff until they find what they need. I know people find it fun to buy and experiment with discs. I don't. I'm assuming we'd all be paying a lot more for discs retail if the quality control was significantly tightened. I'd pay a few bucks extra if I could be sure about what I was bringing home. End rant.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

My buddy got a valk that was stamped as aa sidewinder from factory store like last week?. Lol innova....

 

[dehaas]

My buddy got a valk that was stamped as aa sidewinder from factory store like last week?. Lol innova....

I ordered some of the xg valk xouts from the factory store a while back that identical to a sidewinder when placed nose to nose.

 

[spinachd]

I had a domey champ SW that was pretty nice. It was a impossible to see tie-dye and I lost it. Funny cuz I had also found it but no ink. Wonder how many others have lost and found the same SW.

Anyway I've seen some of the most incredible late turning shots w SWs by various people, always w champ versions. When they are great they're great. Valks more trustworthy though.

 

[Marmoset]

here is the PFN (left) vs FN (right)

I have a "Sidewinder" that I am 100% positive is a Milennium OLS. The OLS is a Sidewinder with a nose spacer added. The disc on the left looks like it could be an OLS. I'd have to see in person to verify.

I came in here with a question, I've tried searching existing threads and haven't found the answer I'm looking for soooo...

How do brand new DX Sidewinders compare to brand new Champ or Star? I'm assuming they start out more understable right out of the gate but I don't have any local shops to verify PLHs.
thanks for any help...

 

[SD86]

Due to similar issues with how the various Sidewinders I had over the years flew I retired Sidewinders in favor of Avenger SS's, and retired the Avenger SS in favor of the Mongoose.

I have a Star Sidewinder, a more recently acquired Champ Sidewinder (bright pink), a couple of Avenger SSs (Titanium and Z plastics), and a Neutron Amp.

I use my Champ Sidewinder as a distance driver. It does for me what I was originally hoping my Valkyries would do, but the Valkyries didn't have the glide of the Sidewinder(s).

The Avenger SSs are considerably more understable than my Champ Sidewinder. Good discs, just more understable. My Star Sidewinder is a bit more understable than the Champ Sidewinder, possibly due to use and seasoning in. The Amp is probably most similar to my Champ Sidewinder, but the Champ Sidewinder flies further than the Amp.

 

[Snap-it]

I have a "Sidewinder" that I am 100% positive is a Milennium OLS. The OLS is a Sidewinder with a nose spacer added. The disc on the left looks like it could be an OLS. I'd have to see in person to verify.

I came in here with a question, I've tried searching existing threads and haven't found the answer I'm looking for soooo...

How do brand new DX Sidewinders compare to brand new Champ or Star? I'm assuming they start out more understable right out of the gate but I don't have any local shops to verify PLHs.
thanks for any help...

Definitely not the same discs in pic.

IME, DX Sidewinders are S curve discs up to 300'. Beyond that pretty squirrely. Champs are straighter, Stars are in between. Star SW is probably the best version to get that intended SW flight. A heavy Star SW will be reasonably controllable.

 

[Marmoset]

IME, DX Sidewinders are S curve discs up to 300'. Beyond that pretty squirrely. Champs are straighter, Stars are in between. Star SW is probably the best version to get that intended SW flight. A heavy Star SW will be reasonably controllable.

LOL, thanks!
I worded my question really weird but you answered it despite my bumbling!
I have (and love) Champ and Star SWs. They fit my finesse game very well. I was thinking about picking up some DX versions but based on your comments (and my assumptions) I think they will be too flippy for what I want.

I was throwing my Champ and Star SWs and my QOLS in the field on Monday and I was getting them out to 450+ with a 15' elevation drop. I needed a ton of elevation and room for them to maneuver but it sure was pretty to watch them work their magic! It sounds like DX will not be usable at those distances.

Thanks for the info

 

[Snap-it]

LOL, thanks!
I worded my question really weird but you answered it despite my bumbling!
I have (and love) Champ and Star SWs. They fit my finesse game very well. I was thinking about picking up some DX versions but based on your comments (and my assumptions) I think they will be too flippy for what I want.

I was throwing my Champ and Star SWs and my QOLS in the field on Monday and I was getting them out to 450+ with a 15' elevation drop. I needed a ton of elevation and room for them to maneuver but it sure was pretty to watch them work their magic! It sounds like DX will not be usable at those distances.

Thanks for the info

Yeah, DX is definitely more US out of the box, and then will beat in quickly. I used to warm up throwing a couple DX Sidewinders, when throwing at a field. I switched to DD Breakouts later.

450' is finesse?

 

[Marmoset]

450' is finesse?

Well it WAS downhill
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that *finesse* and *throwing far* are mutually exclusive.

The line that I had to take to get 450 feet out of a sidewinder is not a line that I would use at the course.

 

[slowplastic]

What were you looking for out of the DX Sidewinder? I think the Leo3 is the next step down from a Sidewinder in some ways...you lose some speed and distance but it has a similar flight styles.

 

[Marmoset]

I was hoping that the DX SW would start out more overstable and still have that DX glide. I was hoping to cycle DX instead of carrying Champs.

I love Leos. They are my main fairway driver. I have at least three in my bag at any given time… usually 1 Champ (for neutral stable shots) and a couple stages of Pro. Sometimes I will include a beat DX if I need a really understable disc. Hopefully my Pro will eventually replace the DX. Like you mentioned, these are my shorter Sidewinders.

I have never thrown a Leo3. My understanding is that they are faster and more under stable than a regular Champ Leo; is this true?

 

[Snap-it]

Well it WAS downhill
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that *finesse* and *throwing far* are mutually exclusive.

The line that I had to take to get 450 feet out of a sidewinder is not a line that I would use at the course.

Yeah, that helps, lol.

...I doubt you're wrong about much. Finesse just isn't the word I'd use. I can imagine how much movement your SW had over that 450'.

:thmbup: btw

 

[Snap-it]

I was hoping that the DX SW would start out more overstable and still have that DX glide. I was hoping to cycle DX instead of carrying Champs.

I love Leos. They are my main fairway driver. I have at least three in my bag at any given time… usually 1 Champ (for neutral stable shots) and a couple stages of Pro. Sometimes I will include a beat DX if I need a really understable disc. Hopefully my Pro will eventually replace the DX. Like you mentioned, these are my shorter Sidewinders.

I have never thrown a Leo3. My understanding is that they are faster and more under stable than a regular Champ Leo; is this true?

I haven't thrown one either, BUT Innova describes the Leo3 as faster with less glide than the Leopard.

DX Sidewinder...you'll "cycle" those at a much faster rate than a DX Teebird, for example. If you get my drift.

 

[ilmcgee]

I was hoping that the DX SW would start out more overstable and still have that DX glide. I was hoping to cycle DX instead of carrying Champs.

Have you considered going up the stability scale? (Valkyrie or Viking) Or wanting the same mold?

 

[Marmoset]

...I doubt you're wrong about much...

LOL, well YOU just made my night!!! I ran downstairs and introduced your post to my wife as "Exhibit A."

Have you considered going up the stability scale? (Valkyrie or Viking) Or wanting the same mold?

I have. I like some of the "next step up" candidates but not as much as I like the SW. Right now I'm beating in a DX Thunderbird to see if I can cover my "control driver" distance needs
between Sidewinders and Thunderbirds. Hopefully a beat DX Thunder will be near a fresh Champ SW. If it works then I'll have everything from stupid-flippy to near-Firebird using only 2 molds. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Snap-it]

LOL, well YOU just made my night!!! I ran downstairs and introduced your post to my wife as "Exhibit A."


I have. I like some of the "next step up" candidates but not as much as I like the SW. Right now I'm beating in a DX Thunderbird to see if I can cover my "control driver" distance needs
between Sidewinders and Thunderbirds. Hopefully a beat DX Thunder will be near a fresh Champ SW. If it works then I'll have everything from stupid-flippy to near-Firebird using only 2 molds. We'll see how it goes.

lol, but that only pertains to disc golf

 

[Marmoset]

lol, but that only pertains to disc golf

I'm not telling her this part!

 

[slowplastic]

In that case then obviously the Leo is already occupying a different slot in your bag, and you were intending the DX SW for other reasons (that it won't fill). I'd say the Leo3 stability is what I'd expect out of a Leopard...I haven't thrown a fresh champ Leo for a while but I know they can be more stable than many expect. The worked in/mellow champ Leo I have thrown more recently is similar stability to Leo3's...so it's not that they are too flippy, it's just they aren't on the more stable end of the Leo spectrum from my handful of ones I've tried (they hyzer flip to turnover/glide). As far as speed/glide situation, it's hard to say. It's the same thing but with less dome. If you're throwing your fairways 375'+ like I imagine you are, anything in that class will come out of your hand fast and the slight difference in dome/flat is more to do with hand feel and stability rather than speed/glide changes in a way that I can tell. Just like my experience with Teebird3's is that they fly like a flat Teebird, not that I'd notice any difference in speed enough to change the number...it's just to market it. It's so hard to quantify why a flat disc still flies similar distance, but stability is a bit different and wind cutting ability....blah blah blah

 

[Snap-it]

Grasshopper...I mean slowplastic, I think this is a test.