Cole Redalen vs Paul McBeth - Slingshot

[Sewer bill]

I think the real issue is that there really isn't any magic to get from 150-300. You don't need to be a good coach to get someone to throw those distances. Most people can learn how to throw 300 with form that will never get in the realm of 400. A lot of YouTube coaching is tailored towards those. And it's very easy to make money at this range.

Getting people into 450-500+ range is where real coaching shows up. You need to have a good understanding of throw mechanics and disc golf in order to teach those distances. And it seems that even now, the success rate of coaching to those levels is really low. Partly because of disagreements about technique as well as a lack of developed coaching methods that work and apply to a wider range of people.

I completely agree, which is why we have several popular coaches who aren't popular with people who know how to throw or coach well.

 

[Kennets]

The problem with coaching is quite blaringly obvious. Right now.

/me grabs soap box.

We are at an age of Coaching where a lot of people think they know what they are doing because they have youtube followers. Coaching prowess is also measured by subscribers of course, so you only know things if you have subscribers. Everyone else is just an idiot.

I'll roll that back.

Were at an age where everyone thinks they can coach disc golf. They can't. You can stand on video and bring your best sales pitch like slinky, or pretend your an expert like josh, whatever you want to do. youtube lets you do it. Then your sub count must reflect your "ability" to coach right?

Now, Everyone that comes to the table on coaching usually brings at least 1 thing with them. Being a better way to explain one little thing, or a new format to teach with (josh). Slinky even brings the "you must be athletic" which is so true. You don't have to be an athlete, but you must throw with an athletic posture. And if you want power, you gotta use fast twitch muscles. Not everyone can easily do that.

So, one way we measure coaching though is YT subscribers. So, Since I have like.. 350 subs, I'm a crappy coach compared to Josh, though I've done more form checks than him, and taught far more people to throw over 400 feet than him. But, I'm a crappy coach cause I don't have any subscribers and I don't get shout outs by other "big coaches."

Part 2 of measuring coaches is, did they play on tour.
There are a lot of people out there who are not interested in listening to you coach unless you've competed at golf at a very high level. This is the absolute dumbest idea ever, but its actually how most of the community feels about coaching as well as top tier players.
Tiger woods isn't getting lessons from Jack Nicolaus, he's got 5 guys coaching him that you have never heard of before, or maybe 1 guy that played on tour 20 years ago but never got really good. These guy's jobs are to study, learn and study, and learn and then teach.

That's what I'm trying to sit here and do and seabass as well. Were not top tier competitors. We just got big brains.
I'm physically incapable of competing at a high level. So, that' just automatically drops me from the ticket of coaches because I haven't played on tour?

Then we look at guys like Uli trying to capitalize on it. And its awful. He's a good dude. But WTF are you doing? And people gonna flock to him for teaching, cause Uli has a good personality and he was a pro golfer!
While one of his main teaching advertisements shows him teaching everyone 'squish the bug'... like the fuck?

I'm going to have the opportunity to play with Luke most of the winter, a touring pro, and I am going to ask him about coaching and touring players and what they actually need.
Because touring players DO need coaching, but ... I've never seen a larger set of egotistical asshole athletes in my life.
Even brodie turned into one in a sense. He went from "we need real caddies" to the typical disc golf "Just carry my bag, you dont know my game."
The effort that Robby put in was a bit more of a friendship sorta thing and not a fair representation of what a caddy SHOULD be doing.

Which is also really sad, because brodie has that Pro Am experience, but he also understands the money isn't there yet. And pro players aint going to want to share 25% with their caddy yet on 6k.
But then, paul wins. ....He can hand you the 6k, they paid him 10 mill.



Coaching needs to be given way better optics in disc golf than it is.
Because the current model is "Youtube subscribers" or "pro/former golfer"
Everyone else is "yeah whatever."

And I"m over here giggling at everyone who doesn't want to do podcasts with me, or talk shop, or any of these other things cause I have no subscribers, and I am just doing lessons in person.
Nobody online gets to see it.
I'm actually helping people do better vs giving out form reviews to paying members and listening to them bitch in discord chats about how its not really helping them as much as they feel it should. (Had an in person lesson guy tell me about paying for form reviews and it not doing anything as well)



Players on tour not accepting any level of coaching unless its from very specific people doesn't set a good example, or the fact they dont use any at all.
It's almost impossible to build a coaching catalog as well. And all we have is youtube subs for reputation?

I've got 4 students over 600 feet.
So, I mean? Where is my comeupins?
It's not going to happen.
So I just talk about it in the largest light that I can online and listen to people say dumb shit like "oh you complain to much."

OH my bad bro, are you offended by the truth of the matter? Reality sucks, I'm just pointing it out to everyone. It's not a crybaby story, it's just based off personal experience.
Nobody gives a shit about some guy on the internet unless you have youtube subs or a viral video.

Which, cool. Fine.
Doesn't mean I cannot criticize someone elses stupidity to work with others.

It will get better. But it shoudln't be based off your youtube subscribers as a "worthy to work with" coach.

So, it all comes down to my complaint about coaches not willing to talk shop with each other in the end.
And.. I mean, Seabass talks to me.
jaani did, but he deleted like all his socials. so.
And that's it.
Nobody else wants to talk, cept people in here. I'm not sure how many of you are just into theory, or actualyl wanna coach though.

Don't ever change bud. You make some pretty valid points - along with a cascade of random thoughts just plowing through.


If I weren't injuried and lived in the states, you could coach me any day.

 

[podskiii]

The reason I think this very interesting, is that I wasted a lot of time trying to mimic a player who is very IR dominant. At the moment, I know the difference between IR and ER, I can just look at my feet while taking a normal walk in the park. The front of my left foot is pointing leftwards, and my right foot is pointing rightwards. If I try to straighten it up, it gets awkward and I can never get used to it. That's also how it feels for me in a normal DG run-up. If I try to straighten my left foot in my run-up, it just feels wrong. It's still not close to Redalen however.

I advocate for those who are unsure, to spend some time on it.

There are some videos to identify if you are ER or IR. For example if would be waste to mimic Kevin Jones footwork if you are ER.

Most people are 60/40 ER or 40/60 IR from what I've seen online. Redalen I would say is extreme ER and Kevin Jones is extreme IR.

After reading all the comments and seeing screenshot from SW22, I believe Slingshot is wrong.

Thanks for the discussion in my thread, I'm a wiser guy now.

I agree with Sheep regarding coaching.

Alex Ferguson who was a manager for Manchester United, he was the best manager/coach ever. As a soccer player he was nothing more then "okay". You don't have to be a top footballer in order to be a top coach. I believe that tis true for all sports.

 

[EllEstar]

The reason I think this very interesting, is that I wasted a lot of time trying to mimic a player who is very IR dominant. At the moment, I know the difference between IR and ER, I can just look at my feet while taking a normal walk in the park. The front of my left foot is pointing leftwards, and my right foot is pointing rightwards. If I try to straighten it up, it gets awkward and I can never get used to it. That's also how it feels for me in a normal DG run-up. If I try to straighten my left foot in my run-up, it just feels wrong. It's still not close to Redalen however.

I advocate for those who are unsure, to spend some time on it.

There are some videos to identify if you are ER or IR. For example if would be waste to mimic Kevin Jones footwork if you are ER.

Most people are 60/40 ER or 40/60 IR from what I've seen online. Redalen I would say is extreme ER and Kevin Jones is extreme IR.

After reading all the comments and seeing screenshot from SW22, I believe Slingshot is wrong.

Thanks for the discussion in my thread, I'm a wiser guy now.

I agree with Sheep regarding coaching.

Alex Ferguson who was a manager for Manchester United, he was the best manager/coach ever. As a soccer player he was nothing more then "okay". You don't have to be a top footballer in order to be a top coach. I believe that tis true for all sports.

I want to approach this; Ferguson was a semi-pro/pro player for like 15+ years in some of the better leagues. He was never really a star but he did play for some solid teams in some high level matches. That helps.

I'm not going to say that playing experience is a prerequisite, especially in sports where the coach or manager is more heavily involved in tactics. But even looking at those you see a large representation of folks who at least competed in smaller leagues or at a college level, despite never being an international pro.

And when you start looking at, for example, goalkeeper coaches or shooting coaches in basketball you'll find a lot of ex-players and people with really nice fundamental technique.

I'm not saying this to target anyone, nor am I saying that you need to throw X distance to be able to teach someone to throw that far, or whatever. But some verifiable experience does help.

If I'm looking at two people who both seem like decent coaches from the outside and whose methods I agree with, but one has been a 1000+ rated local pro for 10 years and the other only competed for 3 years back in the 2010s and never played Open, then I'll be more inclined to listen to the former and request his services.

 

[Sheep]

If you want to be a bigger presence online and receive more of the recognition that's being unfairly withheld from you, then you need to start cranking out the content. Bitch about it all you want but novice players are going to Youtube for instruction and if you aren't making content regularly and aggressively promoting it, you will be invisible to them. The famous ball golf coaches largely achieved success through networking and self-promotion, not deep knowledge of the golf swing. Disc golf won't be any different.

You didn't read what I said did you?
You just stopped half way.

Dont worry though. I answered all your questions in what I wrote above.

 

[Sheep]

I think there's coaching tiers with various applicability to players that quickly diminishes the further up the skill ladder you go simply because there's drastically less people interested in what's needed to push from 400-500 or 500-600. The real meat is teaching how to go from 150 to 300 quickly in easy to understand techniques.

That's not saying there isn't a place or a need for highly analytical form interpretation but it really only serves other coaches OR the people who are capable AND who are seeking that specific information.

Oddly enough. the 150-300 crowd is the easiest to teach and takes little effort to get people there. Especially in person.
Most of my in person lessons are newer players throwing 180-200 and wanna throw further. and they are easily reaching 280-300 in a short time of instruction.

There is 0 expectations of players wanting detailed information. But other coaches should be talking on that level with each other. And as mentioned by the last person I replied to about networking and such. They don't really understand that coaches don't want to network now. They want to build their youtube subscribers, so unless you're going to build their subscriber base, you're worthless to them regardless of how good you are at coaching, knowledge base or anything.

Like take this for example. They would have on Burt Kreichur to gain subs vs talking to other coaches about debated concepts.
Why? Because debates dont get you more subscribers. It's about that sub number for "internet points."

To the broader disc golf demographic the credibility of that information also seems tied to whether that coach can actually throw well and that's just the way it goes even if it is wrong.

Don't be bummed if you're an awesome coach with great interpretation of form to help people push new limits just be mindful that for every one guy grinding hard and seeking advice to go from 450 to 550 there's 10 thousand fat middle aged guys trying to go from 200 to 300 without hurting their shoulder who don't want to lose weight or stretch everyday and become flexible or learn balance or do field work they want a "do this with your arm put your feet here" and boom now disc fly far for gronk solution.

Part of the point I was trying to make though is that it's not about coaching and networking as much anymore, its about getting subscribers. And all things are based on subscriber count or how good you played while touring.
And its quite unfortunate the broader disc golf demographic is so concerned with how good you can play vs how good you can teach.

And the hardest people to teach are overweight middle aged guys. you got that right.
They cant turn and flex. I've still not really had a chance to work with any of them in person, but I play with a few.

 

[Sheep]

I think the real issue is that there really isn't any magic to get from 150-300. You don't need to be a good coach to get someone to throw those distances. Most people can learn how to throw 300 with form that will never get in the realm of 400. A lot of YouTube coaching is tailored towards those. And it's very easy to make money at this range.

Getting people into 450-500+ range is where real coaching shows up. You need to have a good understanding of throw mechanics and disc golf in order to teach those distances. And it seems that even now, the success rate of coaching to those levels is really low.

Home run.

The big subscriber youtube coaches out there are teaching 300-350 max golf lessons.
But they talk as if they are mac daddy big dog bestest ever, and
Then we break back down to subscriber counts again and .. oh you dont have many subscribers, they push a hard pass.... into...

Partly because of disagreements about technique as well as a lack of developed coaching methods that work and apply to a wider range of people.

This is what I want to be working on.
This is what I have been working on.

But when nobody wants to talk shop that has a larger voice, all I can really do is get on DGCR and then just point out the flaws.
Then people again come in and are like "oh stop your bitching."
No. I'm pointing out that there is an issue. And its frustrating to me because I'm trying to do something about it.

I've learned more talking with Jaani over the last year than anyone else because he wants to communicate, share ideas and break down theories. I don't even have to make the content. He makes it for me using our ideas together, but in his way. We discuss a topic a lot of times together and he makes a video on it. We spend time breaking it down into a simple format for the best possible understanding.
Of course, then the internet trolls from other youtube channels come in and say the dumbest shit in his video comments.

 

[Sheep]

I completely agree, which is why we have several popular coaches who aren't popular with people who know how to throw or coach well.

Yeah, that's sorta my whole point. There are people out there who are very bright on some of this stuff and nobody out there looking to listen to them, cause they are not superstars elsewhere.

Don't ever change bud. You make some pretty valid points - along with a cascade of random thoughts just plowing through.

If I weren't injuried and lived in the states, you could coach me any day.

Coaching through injuries is why I coach. I have many. It's what makes me work and think really hard about what I'm doing and how I'm doing it.
If my body would cooperate a bit better and my brain would get out of my own way, then i'd get somewhere, but. Ya.

And, Yes, I have a lot of random thought stuff. I just spew down on the keyboard whatever my brain comes along with then dont actually re-read it. This isn't a professional paper, its a bunch of us chatting on the internet and trying to learn and enjoy life.

And the internet is turning into a place where speaking anything factual that sounds negative is a bad thing. And we wonder why people are so soft now. They cannot handle truthful things being said. They just assume you're butthurt or something.

Sorry millennials, it doesn't work that way with Gen X'ers. We all aim to shit all over your shoes and your lack of ability to cope with the truth.

 

[Sheep]

Alex Ferguson who was a manager for Manchester United, he was the best manager/coach ever. As a soccer player he was nothing more then "okay". You don't have to be a top footballer in order to be a top coach. I believe that tis true for all sports.

A lot of people dont understand that a majority of coaches are rarely good players.

There are exceptions like Larry Byrd and a few others, but Larry is the only one Offhand I can tell you.
Part of the thing with coaching, especially when we get to that level of coaching, is having a massive understanding of all the working parts as a whole to make a "team" cohesive and work as a well oiled machine.
If you're a star athlete running back, how are you supposed to be teaching a QB how to throw? You're not. They bring in special guys who teach QB's how to throw better. They not bringing in Joe Montana.

There are do'ers out there, and there are teachers.
I can "show" you what to do, but I cannot necessarily do it.
Because I have to be able to show you 300 other things as well.

Speaking on that. I have to maintain like 20 different shot styles/types and more So I can teach them.
My roller game is pretty bad right now. I have been focusing on backhand height control for 3 months.
I don't have time to learn to throw 500 feet.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

the squish the bug thing. I played baseball for 10 years, so I'm confident that move robs power.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has done more research into the proper body mechanics for a throw than Dave Feldberg. He even created a college course out of his research. If this technique was the way everyone should be doing it, then I suspect Dave would have figured that out long ago.

Hold on...I played HS baseball from '88-'91 and "squash the bug" was drilled into my brain, rotating the back heel like actually squishing a bug during the swing. I wonder if that was one of the factors why I hit .180 on varsity? (I threw out over half the would-be base stealers as a catcher, though! That and being a good defensive catcher was why I started. I was DH'd for in more important games!). Didn't strike out very much but hit a lot of weak ground balls. On the JV team earlier I hit over .300 and was a doubles hitter, because the fastballs were just meat pitches. I was the worst hitter in the starting lineup on varsity, though.

Having 3 different head varsity coaches in 4 years didn't help. The last guy my senior year was a college baseball player (played in the 1980-ish college world series) and greatly helped me with my throwing down to second base, but couldn't cure all my bad habits as a hitter in the one season I had him. It was all parents and teachers before that. The one English teacher I had in 9th and 10th grade was the big "squash the bug" guy.

Now, bringing this to Disc Golf, I had blown up my pretty horrible RHBH form a few years ago (Thanks so much, Sidewinder!) and got smooth, but was still lacking in the power department. Just this summer, my 14-year-old, who is amazing off the tee, informed me one day that I was planting my brace foot too early. My footwork always has felt goofy, my whole life. He told me to plant it just a hair later. My god, what a difference. I need to practice it a bunch with a net this winter to get the muscle memory down, but man, I can finally FEEL the Disc exploding out like I think it's supposed to! Never too late, you know...

 

[Sheep]

Now, bringing this to Disc Golf, I had blown up my pretty horrible RHBH form a few years ago (Thanks so much, Sidewinder!) and got smooth, but was still lacking in the power department. Just this summer, my 14-year-old, who is amazing off the tee, informed me one day that I was planting my brace foot too early. My footwork always has felt goofy, my whole life. He told me to plant it just a hair later. My god, what a difference. I need to practice it a bunch with a net this winter to get the muscle memory down, but man, I can finally FEEL the Disc exploding out like I think it's supposed to! Never too late, you know...

Jaani has a video on this. ABC
Always be coiling.
You actually wanna coil a bit longer than you think so you load better and your front foot actually plants correctly without you forcing it.
Which,, is basically like just what you said, trying to delay that plant a hair more to coil a bit more. and keep trying to coil while the plant starts.

A lot of us really really try to swing early.
Or you can swing like me, and half ass the backswing.

 

[blayed]

I think the real issue is that there really isn't any magic to get from 150-300. You don't need to be a good coach to get someone to throw those distances. Most people can learn how to throw 300 with form that will never get in the realm of 400. A lot of YouTube coaching is tailored towards those. And it's very easy to make money at this range.

Getting people into 450-500+ range is where real coaching shows up. You need to have a good understanding of throw mechanics and disc golf in order to teach those distances. And it seems that even now, the success rate of coaching to those levels is really low. Partly because of disagreements about technique as well as a lack of developed coaching methods that work and apply to a wider range of people.

Yes, also to add varying degrees of athleticism. There are people whose bodies will never get into the correct positions and never throw far despite doing most things right. There are also people who can outthrow us with crude form but out-of-this-world athleticism

 

[Nick Carroll]

Of course, then the internet trolls from other youtube channels come in and say the dumbest shit in his video comments.

I think this is a big problem that also sets back the disc golf form coaching community. Criticism has to be valid to be worthwhile. And delivery of the criticism should be constructive to have the best chance of the target of such criticism to be open to it. Not all coaches are constructive, either. But I think most are reachable and are willing to not just be corrected, but outright pursue those corrections once they're informed about them. Lastly, there's a difference between being wrong on something, or deliberately misleading. It's the difference between misinformation and disinformation.

 

[Sheep]

I think this is a big problem that also sets back the disc golf form coaching community. Criticism has to be valid to be worthwhile. And delivery of the criticism should be constructive to have the best chance of the target of such criticism to be open to it. Not all coaches are constructive, either. But I think most are reachable and are willing to not just be corrected, but outright pursue those corrections once they're informed about them. Lastly, there's a difference between being wrong on something, or deliberately misleading. It's the difference between misinformation and disinformation.

One of the things with Jaani that nobody really knows is that some of these video's he's doing, it was a long conversation between the 2 of us to fully flesh out the topic, or make sure there was legitimacy to it.

If I disagree with him on something, we have massive open conversations about it. If I disagree with.. .Josh for instance, he wont respond, or respond in some shitty way that just turns me off.

If you question slinky in any fashion, the army of dude bro's comes out and dude bro's you to death.

Try saying anything critical about form on reddit. Watch as you get downvoted SO hard by everyone and grandma because you didn't state the normal.

I'm just over here asking questions and gathering more information than anyone from so many points of view, then forming my idea's and asking more questions.

Other guys are teaching for money and if you question them but dont have a big subscriber count or massive name behind you, you're just a regular piece of shit out there and not worth the time.

I'm over here with the "oh, I'm sorry my bad. I didn't know that subscriber count was a method to test someone's level of competency and respect in the community. My bad Didn't know you were so full of yourself."

I spent a LOT of my online time coaches in places other than youtube, so.. If you're going to judge me based on my youtube subscriber count, and then dismiss me because its small, you really are a crappy person.

Crap, I"ve been trying not to rant about this stuff. haha.


But to come back.
Yes, a lot of the community as a whole are bad about any level of criticism, coaching and playing.

Different strokes for different generations. Look at the pro level attitudes and how much they complain at tournaments, then you get the older players, and they might say something, but they approach it WAY differently than the younger players who scream and cry and kick their feet to us staff members.

Like that whole "Artificial OB is unfair, you could screw up just a little bit and get punished for it."
That's the attitude that people have. Lets break that down. You screwed up, and you're mad because you're bad shot punished your score? Are you 5?

Then you take that to some of the coach level players, and the reason they cannot handle the criticism is because mainly of 2 reasons I can think of, The dunning Krueger effect. As in, They think they know it all, so why would they answer you, they are the elite person. (And this is the main reason for any more recognizable coach I'm noticing, and a lot of the feedback on the one reddit post)

Or, you're a parrot coach, which there are more of these now, and just repeat stuff that others say and try and sound smart.

There was a thread over on reddit about Jaani with his response about people just trash talking him because he's not winning majors or whatever. Then the comments came with a lot of interesting information from support, to people having okay discussion about coaching to as well people showing their elitism in life. "I can't listen to you as a coach unless you're better than me."
And stuff about how they need to demonstrate to them in a fashion that shows them how it will make them improve.

Coaching is about having a massive level of knowledge to help everyone, not about having a massive level of skill to show off. IT's nice to show off, and do when you can.

Anyways, whatever.
The link is here.
There is everything in there from people not even understanding what coaches actually do on teams, to where 1 on 1 coaches come from. There is some mysterious theory that all coaches out there are ex star athletes or some crap. hahaha.
Even an argument about Tigers swing coach. "well, he must have been good enough to be able to show tiger...."
No, he doesn' thave to show him crap, you trust your coach to tell you how to improve as he watches and makes minor adjustments to the machine.

 

[Nick Carroll]

Great points! One thing I'd like to see is more specialized coaching. Seems to me not every disc golf coach teaches everything. That's not necessarily bad of course, but I think something along the lines of a swing coach, movement coach. It's common to have backhand and forehand specialists, and some people are overhand or roller specialists, so why not leverage that level of competency to selectivity? Anyhow, just something to think about.

 

[timothy42b]

Great points! One thing I'd like to see is more specialized coaching. Seems to me not every disc golf coach teaches everything. That's not necessarily bad of course, but I think something along the lines of a swing coach, movement coach. It's common to have backhand and forehand specialists, and some people are overhand or roller specialists, so why not leverage that level of competency to selectivity? Anyhow, just something to think about.

I think there might be a further distinction.

There are coaches who are very good at analyzing motion A and explaining why motion B is biomechanically more correct.

Then there are coaches who are very good at getting a player to produce motion B. They might or might not be the same coach who knows which motion is better. (my opinion is based mostly on music teachers) Anyway, I think these might be two separate skills, or maybe two separate interests. And of course, if a coach is very good at the second skill, but doesn't understand the first skill, it can lead to disaster. In theory anyway.

 

[Sheep]

I think there might be a further distinction.

There are coaches who are very good at analyzing motion A and explaining why motion B is biomechanically more correct.

Then there are coaches who are very good at getting a player to produce motion B. They might or might not be the same coach who knows which motion is better. (my opinion is based mostly on music teachers) Anyway, I think these might be two separate skills, or maybe two separate interests. And of course, if a coach is very good at the second skill, but doesn't understand the first skill, it can lead to disaster. In theory anyway.

This is very valid and real stuff here.
And it kind of has layers.

I'll throw out some examples.

Robby C, really good at explaining stuff, needs to never call himself a coach. He's kinda like person 2 there. Not really a coach, but he's good at explaining stuff the goods. So, him making drill video's is great, or just explaining stuff.
My issue with him is that he also thinks he is a form coach.. ugh.

One of the other ones out there that is in the middle is Josh from OT. He understands movements, and he understands trying to correct him. The issue Josh has is massive lack of experience and just kind of "going it on his own" even though he talks to like 2 people. So while Josh is great at seeing the biomechanics being wrong and has a great eye, and then he's good at presenting the information in return to help you, he doesn't have the knowledge to tell you to do the correct stuff and has 0 interest in anyone helping him get better at it.

So part of the importance on the coaching side is teaching you from the root of the problem. A lot of people try and coach by addressing the biomechanical issue directly, vs indirectly. You have to recognize is this an issue that comes from a bad plant? What do you mean I need to adjust my plant foot, my arm is not working right.
Dude. Trust me.
Oh. That did work right. Yeah, duh.
Addressing the issue from the root cause is the true skill, and that gets a bit harder.

Then we get guys like Slinky/CoachT. And this thread is about him. He understands biomechanics to a pretty decent level, he understands being athletic. He has absolutely NO clue how biomechanics work though, or how to teach them. Thats why he teaches things like "squish the bug" and "double move" because he see's the movements he wants to emulate, but has no idea how to biomechanically understand them.


It took me a LOT of practice and study to start realizing how to address form checks by giving proper good information to folks who needed help and not overkilling what I told them, but looking for a really deep root cause issue and addressing that 1 thing with them. And since it's simple 1 or 2 part instructions on what to do, its far easier for them to work on solo from a form check.
Form checks tend to get WAY to overthetop. I see this with Josh's form checks... Then I have a massive issue with how he does them in the first place. Like... The fuck are you trying to compare average players to simon and drew, are you fucking stupid? One of the golden rules on teaching is to never emulate pro's, but only to look to them for que's and hints.
Dude is like "Nah, lets look at their elite form they developed over 20 years of playing and then stack you up to that unreal expectation."
That's to even say if its correct, or even more importantly the holy grail of teaching disc golf. "Is it correct for you."