Confusion - steely wrist stop vs pull around outside?

[gronkus]

Hi all,
After trying to read as much as I can on the forums, I am confused by two things (or rather if they are both valid how they work together):

1) the idea of a "steely wrist stop"
2) pulling around the outside of the disc

Can both of these be done in the same throw? Is the pulling around the disc so short and quick that it then can happen before a wrist stop should occur and the idea is to try and incorporate both into the throw?

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious but just confused :wall:

 

[clard]

I remember reading about the steely stop thing a long time ago, but haven't really heard it lately. Where is your reference for this?

 

[Kodachrome]

It's from a Dave d video or article, I do believe.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancesecrets.shtml

Steely stop is bad advice, or at best okay advice phrased poorly. He also mentions being able to hold your disc with your off hand, which is a another no-no.

 

[clard]

Thanks, Koda.

Right before the hit starts the wrist will wag back slightly and then go forward slightly. This is when the part happens that's important to remember. Your wrist should not continue forward to sling the disc out; instead it should come to an abrupt, steely stop. At this point your wrist should be stiff and held motionless, so try to stiffen your fingers, wrist, and arm as much as possible at the moment of impact of the snap. It's similar to a karate chop in that there is very little wrist motion. You don't want to keep your wrist stiff throughout the whole throw, though. At the beginning of the throw you want to only have enough tension in the fingers and wrist to hold the disc in launch position. You only become tight at the hit. Notice, too, that using the tendon bounce does not mean that your arm stops just because your wrist motion stops. The arm and shoulders must continue to pull through the snap with as much force as possible as the disc is ripping out of your fingers. Pulling through the hit with your hips and shoulders generates power.

To me this translates to "grip hard at the end of the throw, but grip just enough to hold onto the disc until the end."

 

[Kodachrome]

Basically yeah.

What you want to do is just what everybody says on here - be relaxed, not a noodle. As the disc comes around your body and moves past your torso, keep a firm grip and wrist oriented in the right position, lock that grip down. That will keep your wrist from flinging open too early. I start the pinch as I am coming into the pocket because you can't push your thumb down quite as hard once your hand is extended.

Think of a door with a stuck hinge, very hard to open. You push and put all your weight into it and when it finally releases, it does so with a lot of energy and you go flying as there is suddenly no more resistance. You want to create that same effect with your wrist. So pinch down at the end of the throw. You'll never be able to actually stop it, but you will create a better rotation point for your disc to sling and rotate from before it breaks open.

 

[clard]

Doing anything active with the wrist is on the advanced end of throwing techniques. If you aren't getting 350-400 already then I'd say it's not the wrist that is the problem. Keep just enough pressure on the disc with your hand to hold onto it until the hit, and then apply more pressure. It takes great timing and body awareness to be able to actively use the wrist during the hit from what I hear as I am not able to do it myself. I do know that it is very realistic to hit 350-400 without an active wrist.

 

[Kodachrome]

So as to your original question, keeping in mind the stuck door analogy, the two concepts actually work together.

Pulling the outside of the disc just puts you in the right spot to generate as much speed and rotation as possible.

After all, if you look at a lawnmower cord, you don't pull a cord straight through to the starter, right? It's coiled and you pull from one side to generate more usable force as a lever.

In the stuck door analogy it would be the equivalent of you pushing on the inside of the door frame or middle of the door instead of the outside of the door.

 

[gronkus]

Thanks all, I appreciate the clarifications!

So when you lock the grip down hard during the throw, is it pinching BOTH the thumb and forefinger equally hard together? Or is it mostly pressure from the thumb and more of a "push" inwards towards the disc center that further bends the far end of the disc down?

As far as the steely stop, I think the original term I remember hearing was from Dave D. but I also remember seeing a posting from Blake T in which he also had a little video of just practicing flinging the wrist to a stop without any disc.

 

[Kodachrome]

That's where the grip arguments start. : )

I push my thumb forward and down, maaaaaybe slightly in to the center? I don't think so though. My index really just hooks around the rim and pulls up and slightly back/in to the palm to resist that downward/forward push and keep things from getting too loose. I don't actively pinch the tips of my fingers together in a pinching motion. My grip never goes out to the center of the disc, always stays right next to where the flight plate and rim meet.

That's what works for me. When I was throwing regularly I could max around 430'-440' and I highly doubt my grip was the main weakpoint in my form, or the main weakpoint for many others. : )

 

[sidewinder22]

Bradley Walker also put the steely stop on his diagram. I think his videos explain grip and tendon bounce fairly well and the concept of throwing the disc like a hammer is spot on although the position of the head of the hammer is slightly off(back too far, should be more forward opposite the thumb). However pulling around the nose is not really a good way to throw if it involves force to the right instead of forward. You want to bring the disc around forward(thumb away from target as long as possible to then facing target rather quickly at the end in a forward force/thumb push).

There's a lot of absolutely great stuff in here, but also some slight misconceptions:
https://web.archive.org/web/2015090...view.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291

I think of the steely stop more as a spring. The tighter spring can load and unload more force.

As for grip, my thumb is pinching down/pushing into the inside edge of the rim through the flight plate toward my index finger. My index finger is wrapped around the rim holding onto it like pulling a trigger on a gun.

 

[Star Shark]

Scott Stokely uses the tight vs loose spring analogy in his clinics. It's a good way to think about it.

 

[Dan Ensor]

It's not a "vs" thing. Throw the opposite edge of the disc, and get full wrist extension. That'll get both done.


I re-discovered the importance of pushing the thumb to the rip finger. Really makes it easy to hold on to the hit, and to get the nose down.