Consistency Quest

[Flyzerhip]

Hi everyone and thank you for this great resource.

I have been playing for a few years and I am trying to work on consistency and accuracy. Being over 40 it would also be good to develop a low impact technique that goes easy on the joints. Would be nice to keep doing this for a couple more decades if possible.

I wanted to ask for some help spotting flaws and advise on how to improve.

Here I am throwing a beat 170g Buzzz around 85m/275 feet. Not a great day, was struggling a little with nose up and late releases. Nose up is usually not a problem on good days. Late release is a fairly typical mistake though.
https://youtu.be/K7ghx5lPoDQ

Not the best angle, sorry, but this is a distance throw on a pretty good day.
https://youtu.be/lPllI3HB3w8

Many thanks!

 

[txmxer]

First thing I'd look at is timing. You x step plant then reach back.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Flyzerhip]

Thank you both for the feedback. I will make sure to work on timing. Really appreciate the video, already playing around with the concepts and motions at home. Looking forward to trying this on the field! Thanks again.

 

[Flyzerhip]

Thanks again for the advice. I have been working on loading the bow, trying to transfer the feel of the drill to throwing. It is difficult to get the timing right but sometimes I can really tell the potential power in this motion. Here are a few recorded attempts, powered down and powered up. I would much appreciate a hint if this looks like a step in the right direction? So far I am trying to get the timing and tension right and do not yet care too much about where the discs go. I try to pull the disc out of the backswing as if pulling a heavily loaded cart, I hope that makes sense.

https://youtu.be/U74q7N_Dhj4

Many thanks!!!

 

[seedlings]

Hips shift first, then arm - there is a sensation of delay between them. It will feel awkward at first. This puts more tension and loads the bow.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think you need a little more control of the disc with your hand. Note how Philo keeps his hand more strongly on the outside edge of the disc like using a hammer. Your hand is more loosey goosey all over the place around the disc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks31fkPPyPE#t=32s
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3440757&postcount=4

 

[Flyzerhip]

I am really very grateful for your helpful comments. I find it difficult to spot these flaws. Sometimes everything just looks pretty much the same to me no matter what I try to do, so this helps a lot. I went out again today with these comments in mind and tried a few throws before the snow became too deep. https://youtu.be/BVn3RI7_CvM

Hips shift first, then arm - there is a sensation of delay between them. It will feel awkward at first. This puts more tension and loads the bow.

Thank you for commenting! I think you are right, it does look a little hurried. I tried to improve on this today and (want to) believe that it is slightly better now. Need more practice but if you want to, please have a look at the link above. Thanks!

I think you need a little more control of the disc with your hand. Note how Philo keeps his hand more strongly on the outside edge of the disc like using a hammer. Your hand is more loosey goosey all over the place around the disc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks31fkPPyPE#t=32s
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3440757&postcount=4

Thanks! Yes, I can see that. I think it is mostly in the wrist and maybe has something to do with trying to feel the gravity of the disc throughout the swing. I tried a slightly different technique today and it felt easier for me to control. Still had to edit out some unconscious wrist looseness from the recordings but in general I think it felt and looks a little better. I attach a few pictures of how I grip most discs. Thanks again!

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't know how you can practice very well in the snow. Your feet need to grip the ground to get leverage from the ground. I do notice that Scandinavians tend to use more hop and vertical force than horizontal force or speed I think due to snow.

Might be hard to tell from camera angle, but I think your shoulder is retracted or pulling so your elbow is more behind your back/posterior and not leading the wrist/disc. Need to keep your shoulder protracted forward so your elbow leads in front of the wrist/disc - maintaining a power pocket or leverage.

Note how your balance is leaning/tipping backward away from target and your head is turned back and your arm/hand is really wrapped around the back edge of the disc and then you really fling your arm/disc out to the top of the backswing. Note how all the pros have their eyes and balance forward and their hand is on the outside edge of the disc.

 

[Flyzerhip]

Thanks a lot for breaking this down, really helpful and interesting.

I don't know how you can practice very well in the snow. Your feet need to grip the ground to get leverage from the ground. I do notice that Scandinavians tend to use more hop and vertical force than horizontal force or speed I think due to snow.

Well it depends, sometimes it works fine. If there are just a few cm of wet snow you just step right through it down to what is underneath. I would not risk slipping and hurting myself. Don't really know how many people actually play or practice much in deeper snow. It certainly happens but around here most people will take a break if there is a lot of snow. You will also constantly lose track of discs, icey teepads, snow on your discs and in your bag and everywhere.

Might be hard to tell from camera angle, but I think your shoulder is retracted or pulling so your elbow is more behind your back/posterior and not leading the wrist/disc. Need to keep your shoulder protracted forward so your elbow leads in front of the wrist/disc - maintaining a power pocket or leverage.

Sorry, the image quality was poor but yes I do think there is some "pulling" going on. I had never even thought of that, thanks for pointing it out!

Note how your balance is leaning/tipping backward away from target and your head is turned back and your arm/hand is really wrapped around the back edge of the disc and then you really fling your arm/disc out to the top of the backswing. Note how all the pros have their eyes and balance forward and their hand is on the outside edge of the disc.

Hmm I think this is turning out to be a fundamental problem for me. In both this drill and the Loading the bow drill, I feel that I instinctively work against the moment where I am supposed to let the butt/centre of gravity "go over the edge" so to speak - relax, fall and catch myself. There is a slightly scary moment of losing control in that motion. I guess that by unconsciously leaning backwards, that moment of lost control can be avoided, because then the centre of gravity is never really released out in front of my ground support. When doing the drills I feel that in this motion, the body either becomes tense and makes a quick almost stumbling step to safety, or I exaggerate, miss the timing and lose balance. I think this should be my main focus going forward. The other things seem easier to "fix" once this basic motion is in place. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide these insights, really glad I went ahead and posted here!

 

[Flyzerhip]

Struggling along, trying to implement some of the pointers given, many thanks for those. I have been looking at the many resources here, trying to understand some concepts and drills. It is quite difficult to defeat old muscle memories. Some things seem to work well at home but as soon as I actually try to throw a disc, old habits kick in! Frustrating and rewarding at the same time.

I have tried to simplify my technique and concentrate on one thing at a time. Here are some throws from a standstill. One or two of them went just as far as I used to be able to throw with a run up, on nice and more or less intended lines. What I am focussing on here is using the butt as a counterweight to the backswing. Also, compared to earlier recordings the loose wrist action is not as exaggerated. I don't really know what I am doing about head/eyes forward here, except looking like a madman.

Much more practice is needed of course but I would much appreciate a second opinion if this looks like a step in the right direction?

Thanks!

https://youtu.be/nBXKqVEIdOA

 

[sidewinder22]

Kind of blurry. I think it's somewhat better, stride looks a little long. I think your elbow is not leading/staying forward enough with shoulders closed to target. You still really curl the wrist/disc as your first move forward instead of taking the slack out/lagging the disc behind like Wysocki.

 

[Flyzerhip]

Thank you for the feedback! I understand what you are pointing out.

I think I will change my approach and practice "Everything moves back together" that I read about in another thread here. I have tried it out a few times and while it feels unfamiliar I think that perspective helps me keeping the elbow out and slinging/not pulling.

Will also keep slowing down, shorten the stride and practice more with both feet closer together and mostly on the ground. Keeping the feet closer together feels like it allows more hip motion.

I can also now see the remaining wrist action. Seems like it is pretty well ingrained and will be difficult to defeat.

Thanks again!

 

[Flyzerhip]

Thanks a lot for all the guidance so far. There has been a lot of snow around here for some time. So not a lot of discgolf, but a few practice sessions here and there. I have also tried out several drills. It feels that since posting here I have become a little bit better at spotting flaws myself. What I can see is for example inconsistencies in head turning too early, not leading with the hip, not using power pocket efficiently and pulling instead of slinging. Still working on all of that!

For me, I feel that there are two different basic approaches to the swing. One is the pendulum/hammer X-step and the other is the revolving door/everything moves back together. The latter works well sometimes, but at other times I tend to collapse back into old habits. On bad days I also seem to put a lot of rotation into my lower back using this approach. So I find myself focussing more on the pendulum approach. Here are some examples, from standstill and with a walk-up. I would be very grateful for any further guidance. And of course if this looks like any kind of improvement or at least a better place to start, or rather like a lot of misunderstandings!

Standstill
https://youtu.be/nVRunu4DjvM

Walk-up
https://youtu.be/oTbxHkHZ_uw

 

[lostDoughnut]

great progress!

i feel very similar watching your standstills. when i try low power standstills its hard to commit turning away from the basket as much as i need to (turning away from the basket in general is difficult to engrain into my muscle memory, lol). i believe you need to rotate away from the basket more.

(the angle of the camera could exaggerate a bit much but the general idea is the there)

this drill gave me something to think about and it helped me get a feeling in the left hip to know when ive reached a good backswing position. another comment was make a lefty backswing with the left arm. combination of those two are really helping me out. i havnt gotten it down but its something to help visually when im practicing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s

possibly you need to be a bit more loose. i understand its hard to get loose when trying new movements as my body wants to be stiff to protect itself from falling. haha

 

[lostDoughnut]

for the walkup it seems like your plant leg is not stopping forward momentum. but instead you kinda fall over the plant leg. we want to keep a straight leg for the plant leg. i believe it will bend during the backswing but when we go to throw the disc/downswing and our plant leg lands we want to keep a straight leg. this should stop the forward momentum, and push the right hip away from the basket. this for myself was another foundation in finding drastic distance increase

hopefully my video will show the plant leg going straight and stopping my forward momentum and pushing my right back back and away from the target (its not perfect, but i am getting there. haha)







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Oylh4t8G8#t=5m

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking better. Your grip is still too close to you on the disc, need to keep your hand more leveraged away from you against the disc.

Note how your pelvis tilts over back and forth while mine tilts under staying braced inside posture, so you are moving more like a metronome instead of pendulum with the body. Also note the difference in the rear knee inside vs outside posture.

When you do your forward address you are collapsing your front hip instead of standing up on it. Note how my pelvis is closer to front foot at address and I'm more centered and relaxed, while your pelvis is more backed away to counter the upper body tipping over.

So you want to stay more centered inside posture while still moving your center.

 

[Flyzerhip]

lostDoughnut, thanks a lot for taking the time to break this down and providing all the links and information! I am digesting this now and will certainly try to apply. Your own video shows the point very clearly, I wanted to ask you what your conscious focus is in that motion - what are you actively trying to do? To stop momentum, push heel down, push back hip, other?

Sidewinder22, thanks again for demonstrating and making sense of this. It is all very helpful! Still working on some of the earlier issues but was happy to be able to break at least some of the previous habits. Will try to maintain posture better!

 

[lostDoughnut]

lostDoughnut, thanks a lot for taking the time to break this down and providing all the links and information! I am digesting this now and will certainly try to apply. Your own video shows the point very clearly, I wanted to ask you what your conscious focus is in that motion - what are you actively trying to do? To stop momentum, push heel down, push back hip, other?

yw!

the end goal is my plant leg needs to stop all forward momentum. if done correctly the dynamic movements i have made will then result in my right hip getting pushed back away from the target and, omg the results are explosively improved distance

from that video 'dont rotate' where mike malaska said something like 'i dont actively try to rotate my hips.' i cannot agree more. i dont ever think about my hips rotating. from what im finding out. its putting my legs/arms/shoulders in the right position.

i swing my leg out and away, then i swing that back and in, when the leg swings in its carrying momentum that if i swing it hard enough will pull me off of the ground. i try to remember to keep a straight knee when swinging the leg. there will be some bend in the knee.

regarding the plant leg movement. i cant recommend this video enough

 

[Flyzerhip]

Many thanks for the explanation! I will experiment with this.