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Course Maintenance or Vandalism?
- Thread starter F.Luke
- Start date
It's cool how you neglected to mention any of this in your OP and then get salty towards my response.
So if there is no club, who designed it?
The Parks Dept?
Parks departments make decisions for a plethora of reasons. Most having nothing to do with your personal disc golfing convenience of the OP. Killing poison ivy has an impact on the ecosystem of the forest. We may think it is a mean plant, but to many woodland inhabitants, it is food, shelter. Clearing brush may make it easier to find a disc, but there are the multitude of downstream effects that should be considered, in regards to the bigger land management picture. Sounds like you are working with the powers that be.
There really is no gray area on this topic. Either you have the authorization to do maintenance on a course, or you don't. Doesn't matter what the situation with the course is...club or no club, work days or no work days, attentive or neglectful parks department, etc...someone has the authority to do maintenance and make changes to the course (and/or give permission to others to do the same). Just because you don't know who that is (or think they're not doing their job), that doesn't give you carte blanche to take it on yourself to do it.
To the OP's topic, I'm not sure there's enough active maintenance to be done to entirely prevent course vandalism. Idiots will be idiots. I like to think I stay on top of things pretty well with the maintenance on my course. I've spent a ton of time the last 2-3 years thinning and limbing a lot of the trees along the fairways as they grow larger, taking out the small trees and branches that will inevitably be broken off by idiots anyway...saving them the trouble if you will. I still find broken and snapped limbs and trees here and there though.
On one hole, I cleared and cut a new green area about three weeks ago. Before I moved the pin and made the green active, I had gone through the whole area with a saw and a trimmer, taking out all of the undergrowth and pretty much anything under 1.5-2inches in diameter within 30-35 feet of the basket. I put in a good two days of work doing that. By the time I put the basket in, I had put thought into every tree, bush, rock and blade of grass in the area. What was there was left intentionally and everything I wanted gone and out of the way was gone. Today, I was out on that green and one of the trees, about 3 inches in diameter and sitting about 12 feet from the basket, was knocked over...totally uprooted from the ground. It's not like this was a tight area either. That tree was easy enough to step to either side of to make a putt and there was nothing else around it. Some a-hole took it upon himself to slightly re-design the green, no doubt to make his putt 1% easier.
I hope he ****ing missed it.
To the OP's topic, I'm not sure there's enough active maintenance to be done to entirely prevent course vandalism. Idiots will be idiots. I like to think I stay on top of things pretty well with the maintenance on my course. I've spent a ton of time the last 2-3 years thinning and limbing a lot of the trees along the fairways as they grow larger, taking out the small trees and branches that will inevitably be broken off by idiots anyway...saving them the trouble if you will. I still find broken and snapped limbs and trees here and there though.
On one hole, I cleared and cut a new green area about three weeks ago. Before I moved the pin and made the green active, I had gone through the whole area with a saw and a trimmer, taking out all of the undergrowth and pretty much anything under 1.5-2inches in diameter within 30-35 feet of the basket. I put in a good two days of work doing that. By the time I put the basket in, I had put thought into every tree, bush, rock and blade of grass in the area. What was there was left intentionally and everything I wanted gone and out of the way was gone. Today, I was out on that green and one of the trees, about 3 inches in diameter and sitting about 12 feet from the basket, was knocked over...totally uprooted from the ground. It's not like this was a tight area either. That tree was easy enough to step to either side of to make a putt and there was nothing else around it. Some a-hole took it upon himself to slightly re-design the green, no doubt to make his putt 1% easier.
I hope he ****ing missed it.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
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- 15,874
:clap: :clap: :clap:
The problem is, you don't know what you don't know.
In all likelihood, the work you want to do is harmless. However, there me be particular areas, plants, habitats, etc that the park wants to protect. Getting permission is not just about getting the okay, it's also necessary to make sure that the work you're doing fits into the park's grand plan.
In all likelihood, the work you want to do is harmless. However, there me be particular areas, plants, habitats, etc that the park wants to protect. Getting permission is not just about getting the okay, it's also necessary to make sure that the work you're doing fits into the park's grand plan.
joecoin
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2013
- Messages
- 2,335
I'm a taxpayer, that makes me one of the landowners of a public park. Stand back while I fire up my Stihl.
dashiellx
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2012
- Messages
- 2,856
My guess is it kicked their upshot aside and had nothing to do with the putt.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2014
- Messages
- 8,184
If you think it's that bad talk to the Rec Department.
One of my favorite courses used to look bad. I got in touch with them and maintenance picked up and they let me do whatever I want within reason to make it better.
Not allowed to carry my brush axe anymore though.
One of my favorite courses used to look bad. I got in touch with them and maintenance picked up and they let me do whatever I want within reason to make it better.
Not allowed to carry my brush axe anymore though.
*stops picking up litter because I don't have permission to modify the course/park*
F.Luke
Double Eagle Member
Ru4por, thug and others who suggest I'm blurring an obvious line: the line is defined in the first sentence of the op.
Biscoe, yes Nate is with the park dept but his crew doesn't cover Rockland. He has discussed conditions with his supervisors and that is how I know the dept believes their work is adequate. He has been given permission to volunteer his time and hand tools to do work and Nate has told me I am welcome to as well. Landon and Ed have passed the reigns to Nate. An aside: on ribbon cutting day at rockland I met Landon and talked quite a while with him. I had my machete still strapped to the bag cause the previous day I played signal view and cleared brush off of long teepads 3 and 14 making them usable. I apologized to Landon for potentially stepping on toes since I was new to the area and wasn't part of the local circle. Landon thanked me for my work.
DanJon, the specifcs I stated in my response to you were to illustrate that, yes, I do understand the effort of making and maintaining courses and how to work in the proper channels. They are single situation specific so unnecessary in the broader context of the op. The condescending tone prompted me to be a bit saucy. I apologiize for any offense. I tried to make my response as purely factual and bland as possible.
DavidSauls, yes! You are understanding where I'd like this discussion to go. Once an individual, club, etc has permission to do work only then can one begin to resolve the issues between the cut nothing and cut everything factions.
And just so no one else thinks I'm a dilettante neerdowell who wants to make the courses easier for me: in Oconee county SC I communicated with the city of seneca rec dept to maintain one course, worked with a private landowner to design and install another course, and worked with the oconee county parks department and westminster chamber of commerce to begin design and installation of a third, unfinished course. I know my channels.
I desire the most challenging and fair courses possible.
Biscoe, yes Nate is with the park dept but his crew doesn't cover Rockland. He has discussed conditions with his supervisors and that is how I know the dept believes their work is adequate. He has been given permission to volunteer his time and hand tools to do work and Nate has told me I am welcome to as well. Landon and Ed have passed the reigns to Nate. An aside: on ribbon cutting day at rockland I met Landon and talked quite a while with him. I had my machete still strapped to the bag cause the previous day I played signal view and cleared brush off of long teepads 3 and 14 making them usable. I apologized to Landon for potentially stepping on toes since I was new to the area and wasn't part of the local circle. Landon thanked me for my work.
DanJon, the specifcs I stated in my response to you were to illustrate that, yes, I do understand the effort of making and maintaining courses and how to work in the proper channels. They are single situation specific so unnecessary in the broader context of the op. The condescending tone prompted me to be a bit saucy. I apologiize for any offense. I tried to make my response as purely factual and bland as possible.
DavidSauls, yes! You are understanding where I'd like this discussion to go. Once an individual, club, etc has permission to do work only then can one begin to resolve the issues between the cut nothing and cut everything factions.
And just so no one else thinks I'm a dilettante neerdowell who wants to make the courses easier for me: in Oconee county SC I communicated with the city of seneca rec dept to maintain one course, worked with a private landowner to design and install another course, and worked with the oconee county parks department and westminster chamber of commerce to begin design and installation of a third, unfinished course. I know my channels.
I desire the most challenging and fair courses possible.
F.Luke
Double Eagle Member
No worries DanJon. I'd thought the op made clear that the defining line between maintenance and vandalism was permission from authorites so hopefully we can move on from that.
BrotherD, you're on the right track. There are lines between acceptable unauthorized maintenance: picking up litter, dragging off fallen limbs, stomping briars, etc and unacceptable unauthorized work: cutting, breaking and uprooting.
I'd like the discussion to move towards authorities have given permission for work. Now, where do the lines fall? A club, organization, or individual can make detrimental decisions for a course just as easily as a misguided unauthorized person.
Heading out to Rockland for a round before work.:thmbup:
BrotherD, you're on the right track. There are lines between acceptable unauthorized maintenance: picking up litter, dragging off fallen limbs, stomping briars, etc and unacceptable unauthorized work: cutting, breaking and uprooting.
I'd like the discussion to move towards authorities have given permission for work. Now, where do the lines fall? A club, organization, or individual can make detrimental decisions for a course just as easily as a misguided unauthorized person.
Heading out to Rockland for a round before work.:thmbup:
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biscoe
* Ace Member *
I suggest moving farther up the totem pole at the parks dept with your concerns and conveying to them that you know the difference between a weedwhacker and a chainsaw. Formalizing a club would likely help too.
My comments were directed more to the idea or concept you brought to light, not directed at you Luke. I obviously don't (and did not) know the circumstances of your plight. Keep up the neerdowell mindset.
BarstampLover
Banned
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- Aug 15, 2016
- Messages
- 105
the only thing I remove are dead or damaged branches.
John M. Fretz
Par Member
Thug' is correct.
@ Joecoin, you DO NOT own the park because you pay taxes. Where the #$% did you get that nonsense? You sound like the fools who toppled the sandstone structure at the Oregon Coast, the other day. Total morons. I hope you fire up your Stihl, and I hope you get arrested.
@ Joecoin, you DO NOT own the park because you pay taxes. Where the #$% did you get that nonsense? You sound like the fools who toppled the sandstone structure at the Oregon Coast, the other day. Total morons. I hope you fire up your Stihl, and I hope you get arrested.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
oh boy...
There is a new course just walking distance from my house and new as in they just put in the final baskets within last month but has been here for a year or so now. For a while no one was doing maintenance at all except grass cutting of the big fields and I basically saw no one out there playing. For a while there I'd go thru the really bad holes with a weedwacker, just unplayable unless you had some armor for you legs cuz of the thorn bushes. Anyway I ran into 2 differnet dudes, 1 with the Facebook group that plays and gets together to work on courses and the head guy who designed the course and I told them about the weed wacking and they had no objections. I had a nice talk with the designer talking about the courses and such and we were laughing about how all the thorn bushes just eat up the weed wacker line.
That's about the only time I'd do something beyond very small things like fixing up paths, moving limbs or whatever. I made sure not to mess with obvious bushes and such that were obstacles. The dude really made a sick course. It seems a lot more people are playing and there's more maintenance now so I won't be weedwacking anymore.
That's about the only time I'd do something beyond very small things like fixing up paths, moving limbs or whatever. I made sure not to mess with obvious bushes and such that were obstacles. The dude really made a sick course. It seems a lot more people are playing and there's more maintenance now so I won't be weedwacking anymore.
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Just posted in the Michigan Course Update thread:
"Looks like the baskets at Pioneer Trail Park will be pulled Oct. 9 when the park closes. An article in the newspaper today blamed damage done to the woods by disc golfers, specifically the two local clubs, as the reason for the closure. I don't know what to say.... "
"Looks like the baskets at Pioneer Trail Park will be pulled Oct. 9 when the park closes. An article in the newspaper today blamed damage done to the woods by disc golfers, specifically the two local clubs, as the reason for the closure. I don't know what to say.... "
