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DGPT: 2020 Dynamic Discs Open
- Thread starter brutalbrutus
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Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Catrina's problems were almost entirely related to putting. I don't think she would have beat Paige P under any circumstance, but she could have gained at least 10 shots with better putting. Her drives and upshots were good, for the most part.
I agree Paige P is by far the best woman thrower overall right now. On most long holes she easily outdistances everyone else, sometimes by 50' or more. Paige P had a couple "meltdown" holes, but seemed to rebound from them quickly.
Paige S looked like she was having trouble getting any distance, and half the time seemed to be playing too conservative/scared. She even admitted as much in her commentary. Her short game is good, but she doesn't throw far enough off the tee to compete with Paige P, Catrina, or others. I can't figure out why she's throwing Enforcers or Ballista Pros. Both of those are way too much disc to flex out for her power range. Paige S will never compete with Paige P playing with a conservative attitude and getting outdriven by 50' on every hole.
Missy Gannon looked impressive in the last round. Long, accurate drives and a solid short game. She was a very deserving 2nd place.
I agree Paige P is by far the best woman thrower overall right now. On most long holes she easily outdistances everyone else, sometimes by 50' or more. Paige P had a couple "meltdown" holes, but seemed to rebound from them quickly.
Paige S looked like she was having trouble getting any distance, and half the time seemed to be playing too conservative/scared. She even admitted as much in her commentary. Her short game is good, but she doesn't throw far enough off the tee to compete with Paige P, Catrina, or others. I can't figure out why she's throwing Enforcers or Ballista Pros. Both of those are way too much disc to flex out for her power range. Paige S will never compete with Paige P playing with a conservative attitude and getting outdriven by 50' on every hole.
Missy Gannon looked impressive in the last round. Long, accurate drives and a solid short game. She was a very deserving 2nd place.
Honestly, people, I just don't get the "this course is boring" sentiment. I am trying hard to understand but I just don't see what you guys mean. If you were to say, "I just don't like this course," then fine; we all have our individual likes and dislikes. So, unlike the "this is a boring course" crowd, I am gonna explain what I mean.
When the ECC for first used in its original format, I got it. A lot of long backhand hyzer bombs off the tee, and then yes, it tended to look just like the LVC or Memorial. In the years since, E.Mac has made modifications based on players' thoughts and changed all that. Today there are only 6 holes where backhand hyzer is the play -- and two of those, #'s 11 & 13 you have to stick the landing or your hyzer might skip all the way into the OB. Two other holes, #1 & 14 you can choose hyzer but the hole design costs you distance for choosing hyzer and makes the chance to eagle impossible and birdie way more challenging. So the "same old shot hole after hole with no decision-making" is a bogus refrain now. I am guessing that a long throw skipping past a flag into OB is "less boring" to you guys than a long throw hitting a tree in the fairway and ricocheting who-knows-where. I am assuming you see "hitting a tree in 40' front of you kicking left, then hitting another one 30' in front of you kicking right, then hitting one another 40' in front of you kicking left," (etc.) as not boring? It happens on film on the wooded courses, you know. There has been obviously a HUGE attention paid to pin placement also, adding to the drama and skill required to score well. May I assume that isn't appreciated we either?.
That's what I am saying -- I just don't get it. YOU may not individually like it, but I don't get the reasons you're calling it "boring".
I see what Nova says. No, it is not the most "difficult" from the television chair. But the players who are actually there (see her comments above), plus the other things ECC and Dynamic Discs was able to offer certainly made it more than worth the DGPT's while. Interestingly, the 1000-rated rounds were +3 in round one, +1 in round two, and +4 in round three. There wasn't a whole bunch of players 20 and 25 under par.
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I must point out that could be true for all tournaments, if only par was set according to the official definition.
But, that's not why I'm posting. I just don't feel like I grok a tournament until I look at these:
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I must point out that could be true for all tournaments, if only par was set according to the official definition.
But, that's not why I'm posting. I just don't feel like I grok a tournament until I look at these:
grok?
John Hansen
Birdie Member
Jugular
Birdie Member
And what do you glean from those graphs? It would help everyone to see what your model does with other styles of course.
I also don't see how this tournament/course is boring. The only issue I have with it is visualising the shots. The little flag OBs are not conducive to good viewing. I have to say it's rare that OB is clear on any style of course though.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Maybe with CBS's help, they can do some overlays for the TV broadcast.
I did not know this before, but grok means to understand (something) intuitively or by empathy, or to establish a rapport.
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I don't think she has the skill set to be too aggressive on the course, her game plan seems to be "par golf and wait for others to make mistakes". That's pretty much how she won worlds, so she seems content to keep playing with that mind set, and there's nothing wrong that, especially in the FPO division.
For the experts, is she rounding on her drives? Looks like it me. hmmm....
Fair enough. I think part of the difference in opinion is likely regional. 'Round these parts we don't see wide open, bomber courses like ECC. We play the game on wooded courses, with trees and elevation forcing a shot shaping, strategic disc placement game. Honestly, that does not always translate well to video either.
Closer to par does not really come into play. McBeth's -18 at Toboggan wasn't boring. I indeed would much rather watch top players at Idlewyld than a golf course. ECC provides little in strategy or course management. Should I go left of that one big tree or right. Should I throw over that bush or around it.
My biggest complaint is the course did not translate to video very well, at all. Even after the nice drone hole flyovers, the OB was very difficult to discern. All you see is a big field with a sea of little tiny flapping flags. It was hard to tell the color, so OB, circle 1 and circle two were all indistinguishable.
I think you should reread Nova's post. Seems she is saying she really enjoys the "tournament experience" provided by the ECC folks. Her course comments seem to revolve around the idea that the OB is difficult and they designer seems to get that one tree in the right place.
This is indeed, my opinion......cause that is kinda what we do here. I would MUCH rather play Quakers Challenge from Worlds last year than ECC and would MUCH rather watch top players do the same. I honestly found the ECC coverage unwatchable.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
I hope they keep using that Northwoods course at Ledgestone. It definitely broke up the monotony of watching a bunch of wide open holes with a few trees here and there.
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For example, I see that Paul
was expected to dominate, and then actually played better than expectations for the first two rounds, but his play on holes 8, 9, and 10 in the third round almost cost him the win.
As for what it tells me about the course, I see a lot of "cliffs" in the tracks. These show where players played several throws worse than expectations over two or three holes. So, it wasn't just a case of one tough hole, the players would follow up with another bad performance on the next hole, too. It looks like this layout offers up (random?) opportunities for everyone to have a bad hole, and a lot of players let that one bad score affect their performance on the next hole. And those two effects made a lot of difference in final rankings.
As for what it tells me about the course, I see a lot of "cliffs" in the tracks. These show where players played several throws worse than expectations over two or three holes. So, it wasn't just a case of one tough hole, the players would follow up with another bad performance on the next hole, too. It looks like this layout offers up (random?) opportunities for everyone to have a bad hole, and a lot of players let that one bad score affect their performance on the next hole. And those two effects made a lot of difference in final rankings.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
I think the course appears very well done at this point for the tract of land it is on- much better than it used to be. i don't really care for the new wall and basket practically in the water on Hole 16 though.
Which hole was it where the players were getting heckled by the people at the pool? From memory I want to say that both KJ and McBeth sort of fell apart at that point but my memory ain't all that great.
Which hole was it where the players were getting heckled by the people at the pool? From memory I want to say that both KJ and McBeth sort of fell apart at that point but my memory ain't all that great.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Its 8 I'm pretty sure. If you look at the course map The tee is next to the clubhouse pool and that's the hole Paul took the triple on.
Having played it a few years ago at GBO - I agree with all of what you're saying about playing it. It is exciting, challenging, nerve-wracking, and beautiful. But man - I have never had much desire to watch the coverage. To me: it just doesn't translate well on TV, from my perspective, playing a layout that uses OB lines as the primary obstacle. I've always watched USDGC primarily for the prestige and to know who wins, only really enjoy watching some of the holes. I finally enjoyed watching some of the Ledgestone last year - because they played the Northwoods course. I just don't see how people can enjoy watching courses where the flags are the main challenge.
azplaya25
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Yeah this is probably a better assessment that me just saying it's "boring." I know several people who have made the trip up from Austin to play in GBO and they all had glowing reviews of the courses and DD and the entire experience. It just looks "boring" on tv. Throwing a disc in a windy field trying to land it between some flags just doesn't do our sport justice, IMO. Man made boundaries don't have the same aesthetics as woods, lakes, and rivers.
azplaya25
Double Eagle Member
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Btw, ChrisWoj - I think I just watched a video of yours on throwing spike and sweep hyzers. If so, great job in that. I'd never lined up at a steep enough angle to get that true "spike" until watching your video. Now that I've figured it out, I can see why it is such a useful shot.
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