DGPT: 2021 Ledgestone Insurance Open Aug 5-8

[Cgkdisc]

Too bad you don't have access to internet so you could make us envious (perhaps jealousy might come into play, too).

I'm still in motel with internet but we didn't have it at the courses we played yesterday. We had to follow our bread crumbs, and the horror, a paper map, to navigate back to civilization once the round was completed.

 

[glassila]

Does anyone have a screenshot or some record of the fourth round scores when play was suspended? The suspense is killing me

The PDGA Live site shows the scores except someone entered some crazy scores (-15 with 4 aces) for Casey White. I scrolled down so that score does not show which is why it shows Kyle Kline in 2nd place.
Otherwise, those are the standings at the time of the stoppage.

https://www.pdga.com/apps/tournament/live/event?view=Scores&eventId=47981&division=MPO&round=4

 

[Streets]

I think my favorite part of this tourney had to be the McMeltdown.

 

[Steve West]

Performance Tracks

Spoiler

 

[robdeforge]

If the second or third round had been cancelled, would they have been able to make them up? and if so.... how?

 

[ru4por]

Its kind of interesting to me that the same handful of posters go out of their way to bellyache about what other posters want to discuss. If the thread bores you or gives your precious head an ache then don't read the thread.

Hmmmm....I spoke for nobody but myself. I attacked nobody.

There is no discussion, outside of a storm and the rules. Perhaps this is enthralling to some newer players, but the horse was more than beaten when I posted.

I don't really recall much input on the topic from you. Wish we had a name for posters who add nothing to a discussion, but want to attack and post about other posters.

Remind us again, what it is you wanted to add to the Ledgestone last round cancellation topic. Maybe me, or some of your "handful of posters" can provide some insight into your comments. I am willing to learn about the interwebz from you and be a better forum member. :thmbup:

 

[ru4por]

If the second or third round had been cancelled, would they have been able to make them up? and if so.... how?

The Tournament Director may postpone the incomplete portion of the round for a later date within the scheduled tournament if, in the Tournament Director's opinion, the conditions will not improve or if darkness will fall prior to the projected finish time. (Refer to PDGA Mid-Event Weather Suspension & Cancellation Guidelines Policy)

Partial round scores shall be carried forward to the completion of the round whenever the round is resumed.

A player who stops playing before a signal to stop has been given shall receive two penalty throws if, in the opinion of the Tournament Director, the player stopped playing prematurely.
The Tournament Director will make every effort to ensure all rounds of the tournament are completed as scheduled.

If a total of three full preliminary rounds or less are scheduled, all players must complete a minimum of one round for the event to be considered official.

If a total of four full preliminary rounds or more are scheduled, all players must complete a minimum of two rounds for the event to be considered official.

If those criteria are not met, the event should be rescheduled. If rescheduling is impossible and/or players are unable to participate, a full refund will be issued minus player's package, PDGA, and other associated event fees.

All suspended rounds shall be completed, unless conditions exist that make it impossible. If such conditions exist, the results shall be final as of the last completed round as long as the necessary round requirements are met. (Refer to PDGA Mid-Event Weather Suspension & Cancellation Guidelines Policy)

The completion of a suspended round is a higher priority than a future round and thus future rounds shall be canceled in order to complete a suspended round.

 

[krupicka]

If we had weather issues on one of the first three days, we would have just finished those rounds the next day at the same time the next round was going. It's only delays on the last day that really get to be an issue.

 

[Ryan P.]

What do you all think about the 90 degree turns at Northwood? Where the landing zone is really very small. Seems there were several there, and some players, even landing in the fairway, but just short of the turn, had nothing but 50' pitches to turn the corner.

Fair for top players, or over the top?

I like hard turns, but I don't love how they were setup. What I don't love about them is they reduced choices for the players. For example, look at hole 6 (947 foot par 5 for MPO, 701 for FPO, bend is at about 300 left). For both men and women it's too far to get to the corner in one shot (650 for men, 400 for women but with an odd angle). So the logical thing to disc down and stay in the fairway, throw a NAGS (http://www.omagdigital.com/publication/?i=135573&article_id=1239963&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5), then pitch up to the hole. This is less common for the men, but Erika and Madison on GK Pro round 1 pointed out that it didn't make a lot of sense for FPO. There are other situations, but I think this is the most obvious example.

I think a better way to do it would be to have a very thin route that cut the corner if you put your drive in the exact right spot and decided to go for it. It's difficult to make a hole that provides options when there's such a hard turn in the fairway. You could also have a route for drives that swung out wide and allowed you to get a much better angle for your second shot. For hole 6 the turn is greater than 90 degrees, so that doesn't really seem like it'd work out, but it's an option for other holes with large bends. What I'm getting at is that a good way to make bends in a fairway is to have a series of bends where the shortest route to the basket has the thinnest gap, and the longest route has the widest gap.

With that said, I think Heinold's mindset in course design (at least for this course) was to say "here's the shot to throw, throw it right or get punished." So maybe he purposefully avoided options. Also, I really like the course; this is one thing I thought could be improved amidst a ton of things I liked a lot.

 

[Rastnav]

If the second or third round had been cancelled, would they have been able to make them up? and if so.... how?

As others have said, the same way they've dealt with weather delays in previous tournaments. For an example, we can look at the Des Moines FPO field. They had weather create delays that prevented cards from completing the first round on day one. On day two weather prevented them from ever teeing off. The finished round 1 on day 3 and then played round 2 as the final round on that same day.

 

[BillFleming]

I like hard turns, but I don't love how they were setup.

During the Jomez coverage, Nate commented that the rule for marking a lie might have to be re-looked at. He said due to the way some holes were set up, it would be possible to mark your lie - has to be marked towards the target which is the basket - and have your stance in front of your marker for your actual throw. For example, a hard turn your marker is placed towards the target/basket but you have to throw 'backwards' as your best option. So you stand behind the marker (away from the target/basket), but with the marker actually behind you based on the direction of throw.

Maybe the definition of target should be where you are throwing to; which isn't always the basket.

I have to admit, I used to think that the target was were I was aiming for my disc to go - not necessarily the basket.

(I don't recall which round it was that Nate made the comment).

 

[robdeforge]

If we had weather issues on one of the first three days, we would have just finished those rounds the next day at the same time the next round was going. It's only delays on the last day that really get to be an issue.

my impression was that the MPO field started to tee off very early because it was such a large field. since rounds 2 and 3 took place on the same course, would there have been enough time to get the whole field through the course 2 times in one day?

I'm just trying to understand some of the effects of having a larger than normal pool of players.

 

[dehaas]

I seem to remember the marking of the lie rule being brought here up a couple of different times after tournaments where somebody would go watch over the top of some trees to cut a corner on a hole that was intended to be a 90 degree dogleg…think Simon and his massive sky anny lines.

To avoid weird situations where players are technically playing in front of their discs throwing backwards towards the target it would make sense to change the rule so the mark would follow the fairway or general flow of how the hole is to be played.

The only issue I could see with that though would be instances in the woods. Flow of the hole would play forward(ish) but if a player is simply wanting to pitch out of the woods back into the fairway they could argue that their mark would be directly left or right of where their disc landed. I think where that would become a problem is players aligning their mark with the largest hole to make it safely out of the woods, and not necessarily playing the flow of the hole.

With course design getting even crazier and more and more top pros mastering all types of shots you'll start running into more situations like this. They'll still be the minority, but I think it will be important to have a rule that is concise and easy to interpret, especially if it's on the group to call foot faults.

Probably a fair amount of rules that could be revisited and have the verbiage changed a bit to be more clear.

 

[krupicka]

my impression was that the MPO field started to tee off very early because it was such a large field. since rounds 2 and 3 took place on the same course, would there have been enough time to get the whole field through the course 2 times in one day?

I'm just trying to understand some of the effects of having a larger than normal pool of players.

It depends on how big the delay is and how many players need to finish the previous round. As long as the delay was small enough that none of the delayed players still had to tee off from hole one, they'd restart from where they left off while the rest of the field started at one for their next round. We also could restart as early as 6am the next day and get a handful of groups that hadn't started the previous day out on the course before the rest of the field for the next round.

And yes, with such large fields running this event is quite a challenge.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I'm not sure I get the marker issue being described. How is it different than putting when you throw past the basket?

 

[Rastnav]

I'm not sure I get the marker issue being described. How is it different than putting when you throw past the basket?

On some of the holes at LIS the fairway would run, say, west to east, but the basket would be due north of the teepad. That mean that once you threw down the fairway and had to mark your lie, you could still be throwing east, but the basket was northwest. So you are marking on the NW side of the disc and need to take a stance on the SE side of it. If you wanted to run up, your plant foot would actually need to be past the marker, and to the side of it, in the direction of your run up, to be legal.

 

[seedlings]

Does anyone have a screenshot or some record of the fourth round scores when play was suspended? The suspense is killing me

 

[autocrosscrx]

On some of the holes at LIS the fairway would run, say, west to east, but the basket would be due north of the teepad. That mean that once you threw down the fairway and had to mark your lie, you could still be throwing east, but the basket was northwest. So you are marking on the NW side of the disc and need to take a stance on the SE side of it. If you wanted to run up, your plant foot would actually need to be past the marker, and to the side of it, in the direction of your run up, to be legal.

That isn't really any different than a pitch out, though. Right? Other than it seems weird because you are potentially doing it in an open space and it isn't inspired by trying to make a mando.

 

[zontar]

not sure I've seen a better sequence of five before! congrats Kyle!

 

[BillFleming]

Here's an example of the marker/foot issue....

The white cord shows the Line of Play (LOP) to the basket. The marker is on the LOP, but due to a very huge bush (pretend with me), I have to throw to the left of the LOP. Look at my feet, by the rules, my back foot is in my lie like it needs to be. But, based on the direction of my throw, both feet would be ahead of my marker. The rules however, require the marker and your stance to be on the LOP to the target (basket) not on the intended LOP.

Now imagine that I'm in the fairway of a winding hole or a huge dogleg....the white cord points to the basket, but the direction of my feet is where I need to throw down the fairway.

In both cases, my stance is legal....but at the same time, I am not behind the marker based on my intended throw.

((Disclaimer, I would have liked to do a better photo, but it is raining heavily here...so I did the best I could indoors.))