DGPT Sold to Todd Rainwater

[jvphobic]

Does the CPM change if the ads are shown in some percentage of the screen while live action is showing? Seems like that's how soccer dealt with the getting ads shown during constant action.

With dynamic ad insertion, you can't do lower third ads from my understanding. But, I would like to see some more of that done in disc golf in general. It is something I have brought up a few times. Lower third ads would have to be non-dynamic something that we put in manually. And usually with those ads, you get more money because they are more highly focused on the demographic that advertiser is looking for.

And Dymanic ads can range from $8 - $100 CPM, But it is really rare to get those BIG numbers. Most are around $10-15.

 

[Casey 1988]

What would be sad is if their choice of venues is still tied to cell phone signal. Unless the donor is dropping big money into satellite trucks, hard wire, equipment and bandwidth (or there is some sort of different cell technology available) live coverage will continue to be bleh. IMO the biggest conceptual mistake by DGPT to this point has been the marriage to live coverage above all else.

Right now due to how you can't see other players in disc golf tournament after the shot like in traditional golf is why I do not follow the events live, it is all the lead card or the like. So it does not bother me when the now after 3rd or 4th event the Disc Golf Pro Tour dropped doing the non Live Post production for the YouTube channels that had been doing it for a while.

So yeah the big mistake is to be married to live coverage and not able to be at some courses. I know that some of the disc golf courses in the NT that should move up or move an event like the Minnesota Majestic to the Disc Golf Pro Tour is not possible due to not having a signal at the event. Also the other mistake was in 2018 making the groups have a phone like thing given to them to use for the tournament to use to get the U-Disc app on it to see scores live and being married to the app for the Disc Golf Pro Tour, some events in the Disc Golf National Tour did not use the app on phones to see other players during the event, as the scores from U-Disc app did not show up on the Disc Golf National Tour.

 

[Casey 1988]

Hopefully Rainwater and Spring are smart enough to refrain from coaching and stay off the 18th green when the tournament champ is about to putt for the win.

They might actually be commantators for the lead card post round coverage the whole time, so if they do not work as commentators...Yikes!

 

[DiscFifty]

According to the DGPT they are opening up an RFP for post production coverage. So that could mean that CCDG, Gatekeeper, GK Pro, etc gets the nod depending on what they are offering. I have a lot of faith in the new direction of the DGPT.

As in "Request For Proposal? Meaning highest bid gets to produce the post coverage?

For ****es and giggles.. you seem to average around 3k live viewers a round, how many of those do you think would pay $5.00 to watch the final round live?

 

[jvphobic]

As in "Request For Proposal? Meaning highest bid gets to produce the post coverage?

For ****es and giggles.. you seem to average around 3k live viewers a round, how many of those do you think would pay $5.00 to watch the final round live?

Don't know? Maybe 800. But I don't think the smart move would be to sell it individually. I think you offer a season pass as WELL as individual events. But how knows. I am sure all things will be discussed this off season.

And as far as highest bidder. ??? That is another good question. The RFP could include other things beyond just cost. I am really excited to see it honestly, because I don't know what it will include. I do hope that they talk with the media to see what it all entails. It could be that the RFP includes FPO1 as well. Because as we stated earlier, there isn't a lot of demand to cover that card, due to the low numbers it pulls.

 

[SD86]

Does the CPM change if the ads are shown in some percentage of the screen while live action is showing? Seems like that's how soccer dealt with the getting ads shown during constant action.

Jomez was doing some of that as people were putting out at the end of a hole. It was jarring to see the screen go small as the split screen happened, and then I couldn't see the people putting.

TL;DR: split screens for ads with live action svcks, so sorry. :thmbdown:

 

[JC17393]

Jomez was doing some of that as people were putting out at the end of a hole. It was jarring to see the screen go small as the split screen happened, and then I couldn't see the people putting.

TL;DR: split screens for ads with live action svcks, so sorry. :thmbdown:

Live was doing that earlier this year, and it indeed sucked. At least with Jomez, they can pick the moment they do it so that nothing other than routine drop-ins are "lost" to the shrunken frame. With live there's the chance (and it did happen) that the frame is shrunk for an ad and then something noteworthy happens, like a missed putt.

If there were to be ads put in during the action, better it be a lower third thing that maybe briefly takes over the space where the scoreboard is. Jomez has done that a little bit, and Dynamic does it as well on their tournament coverage. Much less obtrusive, though probably also worth less from a revenue standpoint.

 

[jvphobic]

Live was doing that earlier this year, and it indeed sucked. At least with Jomez, they can pick the moment they do it so that nothing other than routine drop-ins are "lost" to the shrunken frame. With live there's the chance (and it did happen) that the frame is shrunk for an ad and then something noteworthy happens, like a missed putt.

If there were to be ads put in during the action, better it be a lower third thing that maybe briefly takes over the space where the scoreboard is. Jomez has done that a little bit, and Dynamic does it as well on their tournament coverage. Much less obtrusive, though probably also worth less from a revenue standpoint.

I don't mind the split screen ads too much. But you are right, with live there is always a chance that something happens. Like someone missing an 8 footer... (that NEVER happens, haha). But I do prefer some nice lower third graphics instead.

 

[Casey 1988]

I have no idea if Jomez will be back or not. According to the DGPT they are opening up an RFP for post production coverage. So that could mean that CCDG, Gatekeeper, GK Pro, etc gets the nod depending on what they are offering. I have a lot of faith in the new direction of the DGPT.

GK Pro has really stepped up in the last few years even offering a flight thing like Jomez, calling it a Fight Tracker to avoid the commentary/announcers calling it something else. CCDG has fallen behind the pack, and is only a option equal to Thediscgolfguy when he is doing his tournament footage mostly of the females or tournaments not covered in the USA by other production companies.

I hope we get better female coverage, I would like that to see them play and have what the males end up with and not just a CCDG type coverage.

 

[wolfmandragon]

I understand the need for revenue but as a programmer, I will always have dynamic ads blocked. They are a security risk both to one's system as well as one's PII.

If someone builds a system where I can't watch the video with my blocking, or rerouting, of scripts, then I will simply not watch.

I am a capitalist and I am will to pay a modest amount for post production tournaments that I am interested in; I would guess quite a bit more than they would get from dynamic ads.

 

[Discette]

I understand the need for revenue but as a programmer, I will always have dynamic ads blocked. They are a security risk both to one's system as well as one's PII.

If someone builds a system where I can't watch the video with my blocking, or rerouting, of scripts, then I will simply not watch.

I am a capitalist and I am will to pay a modest amount for post production tournaments that I am interested in; I would guess quite a bit more than they would get from dynamic ads.

I don't have any programming skills, so I use Ad Block and other methods so I don't see ads on my computer or TV. The easiest way to avoid ads is to avoid watching live. I record my favorite network shows so I can watch later and fast forward through every single commercial. I also do the same with post round DG coverage.

With live disc golf coverage, I just wait an hour to start watching so I can skip all the ads AND annoying filler talk. (It is not necessary to fill every second of every live broadcast with incessant jabber.)

Just like WMD, I am willing to pay for a commercial free experience. I currently pay for ad free premium cable channels and streaming services like Hulu, Netflix and Sirius XM Radio - just so I don't have to endure advertising.


I have come to hate advertising so much, that I really get (irrationally) upset when I start watching a network show On Demand that doesn't have FF. The dreaded "noff". :wall:

 

[biscoe]

And as far as highest bidder. ??? That is another good question. The RFP could include other things beyond just cost. I am really excited to see it honestly, because I don't know what it will include. I do hope that they talk with the media to see what it all entails. It could be that the RFP includes FPO1 as well. Because as we stated earlier, there isn't a lot of demand to cover that card, due to the low numbers it pulls.

In the current structure of things (organizers basically paying the way for video crews to come) isn't lowest bidder a more appropriate term?

 

[jvphobic]

Both CCDG and Jomez are making decent money off of their post production now. So, it could be a highest bidder scenario as in who offers to pay the DGPT to come and film. It was discussed in a Reddit thread that Ian said he could see paying $1000 for lead card MPO. And maybe more?

The problem is going to come when someone needs to cover FPO or MPO2. Neither of those will garner any money. Because they don't get the views that MPO does. So depending on what the RFP says, that could be a major issue.

I mean it really is going to depend on what the DGPT wants. If they want control of the ads in the post production videos it is going to be a different beast, because that is where the media companies make money.

 

[JTacoma03]

In the current structure of things (organizers basically paying the way for video crews to come) isn't lowest bidder a more appropriate term?

I'm relatively certain the DGPT intends to sell the rights, or at least pick the RFP that is free to them. Those are my words/thoughts though, not anything official.

I agree with JVD, it's excellent that this is going to a proper RFP process, it's really the only correct choice that Jeff has. If he openly courts CCDG, Smashboxx, and Jomez above all others he's risking re-opening old wounds, bringing up comparisons to the "old way", and alienating potential competitive business partners that are new to the scene. Plus he comes to the negotiating table without much leverage in that scenario. The best thing for him to do for the tour is to keep it open to all interested parties, especially given his expressed desire to give the individual tournaments on the tour more emphasis. The DGPT could theoretically have more leverage on a less-established (but talented) channel, for example, to mandate a certain level of visibility for their events in the coverage than they could with a group who has already dialed in their look.

IMO, so far Jeff is doing exactly what he needs to be doing - right message, right tone, and writing the story instead of letting the forums and Facebook write it for him. Cautious optimism is justified here I believe.

 

[biscoe]

I'm relatively certain the DGPT intends to sell the rights, or at least pick the RFP that is free to them. Those are my words/thoughts though, not anything official.

I agree with JVD, it's excellent that this is going to a proper RFP process, it's really the only correct choice that Jeff has. If he openly courts CCDG, Smashboxx, and Jomez above all others he's risking re-opening old wounds, bringing up comparisons to the "old way", and alienating potential competitive business partners that are new to the scene. Plus he comes to the negotiating table without much leverage in that scenario. The best thing for him to do for the tour is to keep it open to all interested parties, especially given his expressed desire to give the individual tournaments on the tour more emphasis. The DGPT could theoretically have more leverage on a less-established (but talented) channel, for example, to mandate a certain level of visibility for their events in the coverage than they could with a group who has already dialed in their look.

IMO, so far Jeff is doing exactly what he needs to be doing - right message, right tone, and writing the story instead of letting the forums and Facebook write it for him. Cautious optimism is justified here I believe.

I agree completely that optimism is justified for DGPT fans. Also that an actual RFP is the way to go- a business needs to run like a business.

I admittedly still have a lot of trouble getting my head around how the monetization of coverage works at this point. Seems to me that TD's paying for coverage are getting colossally screwed but that's how dg seems to work- everybody gets paid but the TD's.

 

[DiscFifty]

It was discussed in a Reddit thread that Ian said he could see paying $1000 for lead card MPO. And maybe more?

I still have a bad taste about Jomez allegedly charging the local organization $2000.00 to film the VPO Tournament in Texas and then also apparently getting all ad revenue as well. I've always said media companies should be bidding, etc, for the right to cover an event. Glad this is happening now.

 

[JTacoma03]

I agree completely that optimism is justified for DGPT fans. Also that an actual RFP is the way to go- a business needs to run like a business.

I admittedly still have a lot of trouble getting my head around how the monetization of coverage works at this point. Seems to me that TD's paying for coverage are getting colossally screwed but that's how dg seems to work- everybody gets paid but the TD's.

My experience planning this A-tier has further opened my eyes to the plight of TD's.

My experience balancing annual and project budgets for 4 years at SpinTV makes me understand why media teams put up the fences that they do.

Despite all that experience, I do not have a cure-all idea on hand for the problem. On one hand I'd hate to see us start drawing all these lines in the sand for the paltry amount of money we're quibbling over, because ultimately those lines will be abused and eventually tossed out as we continue to grow the industry.

On the other side of that coin, we have to keep fanning the flames to keep growing, so striking a balance between setting up for smooth future growth and cooperation and not choking/bottlenecking the immediate growth is crucial.

Honestly, I'm looking for the PDGA to lead us on this, but they also have a bad habit lately of writing completely unenforceable policy, which doesn't help.




One way or another, we're about to enter a new age of disc golf. I think it's pretty fitting that McBeth won Worlds this year, because 2012-2019 will be looked back upon as an era. There's a new one dawning, with far more emphasis on what happens "outside of the ropes" than in anytime in the past.

 

[JC17393]

I still have a bad taste about Jomez allegedly charging the local organization $2000.00 to film the VPO Tournament in Texas and then also apparently getting all ad revenue as well. I've always said media companies should be bidding, etc, for the right to cover an event. Glad this is happening now.

You can only get bidders for content that people want. Bidding on covering DGPT or NT or Majors might generate some revenue for those events/tours. No one is bidding to cover an average A-tier like VPO. Not unless the TD can guarantee all the big hitters are going to be in attendance.

And when I say all, I don't mean one or two, I mean enough to all but guarantee two or three of them on the lead/feature card. They're not going to get huge views on a tournament where Eagle McMahon beats up on a few local 1000 rated guys. They will if it's a battle to the last hole with McBeth, Wysocki, McMahon, Jones, Heimburg, Lizzote, Conrad, Sexton, etc all in the hunt. One of those will produce good revenue for the crew, one won't.

If you aren't going to have headliners, you're going to have to pony up to get a video crew to come to town and film, especially a high caliber one like Jomez. You can quibble with their asking prices, but I feel like they know at this stage where their break-even point is, and they price themselves accordingly. $2000 for Jomez for a weekend doesn't surprise me in the least, especially if there was any interest in them turning things around next day. These guys aren't hobbyists. This is their job.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm curious if any of the media teams have figured out if there's any course fatigue where viewership has gone down in the following year(s) on a course even if the groups playing them continue to be top rated.

 

[BlueMonk]

I'm curious if any of the media teams have figured out if there's any course fatigue where viewership has gone down in the following year(s) on a course even if the groups playing them continue to be top rated.

I'm curious about this, too.

I find myself being more drawn to the post-produced coverage lately. I used to watch everything, but now I've seen all the courses several times and it takes a special set of circumstances to get me to tune in. For me to tune in live, it's got to be the last round and several top players have to be in a close battle for first place. Otherwise, I prefer to wait for post-produced coverage.