Disc Golf World Tour

[corin_brown]

Just FYI you're displaying your lack of reading comprehension with this response. Try reading my post again

Lol. Ok, you win, man. Congrats.

 

[jvphobic]

In all seriousness, if you believe that, I encourage you to be the entrepreneur that proves it true.

It costs thousands of dollars per day to execute, is logistically much more difficult, requires more skilled crew and talent, and I think the biggest live audience ever is 6000 concurrent viewers at Worlds last year? Oh, and nobody will watch it after the fact, they just whine at you for months about how they don't have time and you should cut it for them.

...consider that vs. probably $2000-$2500 for a whole weekend of edited rounds from some of the video channels out there, and with big names at the event you could pull 100k views in a month (combined).

Strictly on a $-per-view basis live coverage is a fools bet.

I would love to argue with Jamie on some of his facts... but I can't. Most of what he says is correct. The only thing I will say is that I don't believe that it is a "fools bet". I am pretty foolish, but we at SmashBoxx hope to be in the black by next year. Granted, we have been pretty fortunate with a few decisions we have made, and being the only live disc golf broadcasting still out there helps out a lot.

People WILL watch after the fact if 2 things are in play. First, no condensed coverage. Second. Exciting round. But, we don't ever want to hold anyone "ransom" with no condensed coverage. But, we also rarely plan on doing condensed coverage from our footage because of the extra time and logistics it takes.

But I agree with Corin in that live has an advantage of built in sponsorship time as opposed to cut footage that people can fast forward through. We have an advantage of having the option to get multiple advertisers (depending on the event). The standard has already been set for cut coverage of quick videos with no commercials.

But, the cost of broadcasting is coming down year after year as the cost of data is lowering. We can only hope it continues to decline.

 

[JTacoma03]

I would love to argue with Jamie on some of his facts... but I can't. Most of what he says is correct. The only thing I will say is that I don't believe that it is a "fools bet". I am pretty foolish, but we at SmashBoxx hope to be in the black by next year. Granted, we have been pretty fortunate with a few decisions we have made, and being the only live disc golf broadcasting still out there helps out a lot.

People WILL watch after the fact if 2 things are in play. First, no condensed coverage. Second. Exciting round. But, we don't ever want to hold anyone "ransom" with no condensed coverage. But, we also rarely plan on doing condensed coverage from our footage because of the extra time and logistics it takes.

But I agree with Corin in that live has an advantage of built in sponsorship time as opposed to cut footage that people can fast forward through. We have an advantage of having the option to get multiple advertisers (depending on the event). The standard has already been set for cut coverage of quick videos with no commercials.

But, the cost of broadcasting is coming down year after year as the cost of data is lowering. We can only hope it continues to decline.

To be fair, I was speaking from an investors point of view. You guys run a skeleton crew and don't get paid enough (or don't charge enough, depending on how you look at it) for the overtime hours and weekends away from family.

To be 3 years before even getting into the black, on very small margins, is rough. If not for your love of the game and a bit of faith that the industry continues to grow steadily enough to support your business.

Unfortunately full rounds showing every shot, live or otherwise, is not the future of disc golf media. It's been the most cost effective way to provide people with coverage, but it's boring to most people who aren't hardcore disc golf nerds like us...and when you start to evolve into a more standard broadcast model you add costs that Smashboxx doesn't have to deal with right now, but the gap between where we are and where we need to be to produce an entertaining product for non-disc golfers isn't linear in regards to cost increases, it's exponential...and without that transformation we won't see the ad/sponsor revenue necessary.

just my .02

 

[corin_brown]

People WILL watch after the fact if 2 things are in play.

Of course people will watch.

~35k views of the 3 hour live broadcast of the 2015 Memorial, after 15 months.
~70k views of the 3 hour live broadcast of the 2016 Memorial, after 2 months.

100% annual growth is ok growth? Right?

 

[chris deitzel]

Not being able to watch live is a huge downfall.

The exciting thing about watching golf or hockey or football is the excitement of watching your team win.

Who wants to watch a game after you already know who won? Doesn't matter how good the production quality is, if it's not in real-time it's lost all of its appeal.

And really, watching disc golf pretty much sucks.

 

[JTacoma03]

And really, watching disc golf in its current format pretty much sucks.

FTFY.

I totally agree that watching every shot of a round from 4 players sucks. There's so much dead air and a high percentage of the time its just boring.

We need to cut the filler and move to a broadcast model such as golf uses. They show the storyline, nothing more, nothing less. It's easier to keep the commentary interesting as well because you're not just having to BS to fill time or repeat the same phrases over and over for the boring majority of the round.

but then again...that costs more...and disc golfers are cheap. :\

 

[AndyJB]

So I just tried watching some of the Konopiste Open on SpinTV.
First, let me say I really disagree with the YouTube commentators who don't like Avery doing the play-by-play. I actually really like him (as a person as well) as the play-by-play guy. He needs some seasoning, but so would anybody. His knowledge is vast and his style and personality come across very well. I hope DGWT keeps him on for the duration!

Those cuts though...holy crap you just gotta slow down. I know disc golf can be boring to watch and have too much "filler" but that was just ridiculous. I couldn't get more than 5 minutes into each video.

I'm seeing some definite promise here though. Keep it up...as long as everyone involved is learning with each event, things will end up very well for next season.

 

[Rockwell]

First, I think that the coverage of this tournament looks awesome. This course and these players look great on film.

But I will say that I personally prefer watching well done live coverage simply due to the fact that it allows time for drama to build. I get invested in what about to happen on the next shot.

Cut together coverage with quick transitions and no breathing time between shots takes a lot of the heart out of watching and makes it more informational than emotional.

If you have seen the replay games that the NFL network cuts together where it's only snaps and plays, you know what I'm talking about. Live allows you to become part of the game.

 

[lyleoross]

FTFY.

I totally agree that watching every shot of a round from 4 players sucks. There's so much dead air and a high percentage of the time its just boring.

We need to cut the filler and move to a broadcast model such as golf uses. They show the storyline, nothing more, nothing less. It's easier to keep the commentary interesting as well because you're not just having to BS to fill time or repeat the same phrases over and over for the boring majority of the round.

but then again...that costs more...and disc golfers are cheap. :\

I'm going to disagree. I've watched some very boring live broadcasts, and some that were just fine. I recognize that the short attention span of today's online crowd is counter to that, but for some it can be done. Smashboxx is quite good at this. I would say it's like playing a round with someone you like chatting with. Terry chats about what is going on. It never feels forced, memorized, or repetitive. That's a hard thing to do. I'm not even going to tell you he doesn't repeat, he's good enough at it that I don't notice.

The disc golfer demographic is changing. Most of the players I see are hauling $250 bags. You're moving out of cheap, to guys who have some disposable income. If you'd asked me five years ago, I would have repeated the disc golfers are cheap trope.

 

[lyleoross]

So I just tried watching some of the Konopiste Open on SpinTV.
First, let me say I really disagree with the YouTube commentators who don't like Avery doing the play-by-play. I actually really like him (as a person as well) as the play-by-play guy. He needs some seasoning, but so would anybody. His knowledge is vast and his style and personality come across very well. I hope DGWT keeps him on for the duration!

Those cuts though...holy crap you just gotta slow down. I know disc golf can be boring to watch and have too much "filler" but that was just ridiculous. I couldn't get more than 5 minutes into each video.

I'm seeing some definite promise here though. Keep it up...as long as everyone involved is learning with each event, things will end up very well for next season.

The biggest problem with Avery, other than he's dancing, oh wait, that thing he's doing with his hands isn't dancing? is that he repeats dumb things in different ways. "He's going to chip a little layup to drop the disc near the basket with a short upshot, as safely as he can" is borrrring. Add to that, "It's in for an all star birdy," before the guy putts and I'm pretty much done.

Yes, Avery is clearly a great guy. My father once told me, false modesty is bad, as is thinking you can do something you can't. Be honest with yourself. Jamie and Avery have gotten better at this, but neither is a natural at it. That doesn't mean they're bad or stupid, or dumb. It just means they aren't great at this. I commend the effort they've made to improve, but they still aren't interesting, sorry. Could they be? People do hard things all the time. I might argue that going on line and saying it's boring is a bad way to go about it.

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Yea that exaggerated hand gesturing is really distracting. Most of the time it's not even in synch with what he is saying. You can tell he is a genuinely nice guy, and not a pompous jerk playing nice for the camera, though. I'm certainly pulling for him to improve, because I want to like listening to him, if that makes sense.

 

[onemilemore]

FTFY.

I totally agree that watching every shot of a round from 4 players sucks. There's so much dead air and a high percentage of the time its just boring.

We need to cut the filler and move to a broadcast model such as golf uses. They show the storyline, nothing more, nothing less. It's easier to keep the commentary interesting as well because you're not just having to BS to fill time or repeat the same phrases over and over for the boring majority of the round.

but then again...that costs more...and disc golfers are cheap. :\

This is honestly why I would love to see some broadcasting enterprise come in and try a live subscription model. Charge $x per year for x number of tournaments, and put that money into production: Multiple cameras, pre-produced assets, etc.

It'd be a risk though because, as you mentioned and we all know, disc golfers are cheap. But if you get enough cheap disc golfers to pony up, it could work.

 

[armiller]

I love the dedicated "disc golf channels," but I really think the only way disc golf will get bigger (spectator-wise) is if some other sports media entity decides to televise something. If Worlds or some other big tournament ever makes it onto ESPN5, that might change something. But otherwise, I just don't see reaching a larger audience, except for the gradual year-by-year growth we're already seeing.

That'll be the day, when you have some less famous ESPN anchor plus a disc golf ex-pro color guy taking us through the 3rd round of Worlds on live cable TV. Suddenly, you'll pick up some random TV viewers and the sport will start to grow, at least among non-disc-golfers. After so many aces have made it onto Sportscenter's Top 10, is there any chance ESPN would send a bare bones crew out to cover a big DG event?

 

[T_Mac]

Also, am I the only one who finds Avery's femal co-host very attractive? I doubt it.

:thmbup:

Those cuts though...holy crap you just gotta slow down. I know disc golf can be boring to watch and have too much "filler" but that was just ridiculous. I couldn't get more than 5 minutes into each video.

I agree. The action and commentary was happening waaaay too fast. There were some that cut so quickly that Avery was talking about the previous highlight while the next one was halfway over. I'd suggest slowing it down, let Avery take a breath now and then.

Avery will be a great commentator once he gets a few of these events under belt. My one critique of him is those pesky repetitive phrases/words, especially (mostly) "...trying to..."

Anyway, congrats to Simon. That monster shot...and long birdie shot...that's why I love watching disc golf.

 

[corin_brown]

I love the dedicated "disc golf channels," but I really think the only way disc golf will get bigger (spectator-wise) is if some other sports media entity decides to televise something. If Worlds or some other big tournament ever makes it onto ESPN5, that might change something. But otherwise, I just don't see reaching a larger audience, except for the gradual year-by-year growth we're already seeing.

Exactly correct. Serious sports broadcasters (ESPN, Fox, networks, etc.) won't pay to televise disc golf unless the audience for disc golf has already been built. ESPN is not into building any sports at the grass-roots level, they're into buying the rights for access to existing sports audiences and bringing those captive audiences to paying corporate sponsors. Of course ESPN wants to increase ratings of their properties, but they, themselves, are only able do so incrementally. The real growth in any sport that shows up on ESPN has already occurred, at the grass roots level, before that sport ever appears on the WWL.

Personally, I'm fine with disc golf growing at its current modest rate. I actually wouldn't even mind if it doesn't grow at all. But if folks want there to be an audience for disc golf big enough to get onto ESPN, those folks must take decisive and aggressive action to increase the sport's popularity to the general public and in pcrease the sport's profile in popular culture.

 

[corin_brown]

I recognize that the short attention span of today's online crowd is counter to that, but for some it can be done. Smashboxx is quite good at this. I would say it's like playing a round with someone you like chatting with. Terry chats about what is going on. It never feels forced, memorized, or repetitive. That's a hard thing to do. I'm not even going to tell you he doesn't repeat, he's good enough at it that I don't notice.

Another vote here for Terry and the Smashboxx live coverage production.

My ideal tournament experience, as a spectator, would be to attend the tournament in person and to follow the lead card around the track for the whole round - to basically hang out in the gallery. There's always plenty of fun banter bouncing around the gallery between throws, maybe someone's toting around a cooler and sometimes you get to bend the ear of one of the pros while there's a back up on a hole or something. But for almost all of us, because of geography, attending most of these tournament is just not possible. So, I think, the next best thing is watching Smashboxx live tournament coverage.

Terry comes the closest to replicating the experience of following around the lead card like being a member of the gallery. His delivery is so easy-going and chill, while still being incredibly authentic, enthusiastic and informative. He's the best & classiest disc golf playXplay guy out there and it's not even close. He's our Jim Nantz.

I love putting the Smashboxx coverage up on the big screen and then joining the YouTube chat or following the live scoring. Of course disc golf live coverage is not even in the same galaxy as something as slick and professional as The Masters, the single best multi-media televised sports production around, imo. After all, the $ ESPN spent on duct tape for The Masters production this year is probably higher than Smashboxx's entire annual budget. But Smashboxx still does a damn good job and I thought their coverage of The Memorial this year was terrific.

 

[corin_brown]

As for Avery, I personally like him a lot too. He's a tremendous figure in disc golf history and he's a terrific ambassador. He's always been personable in person when I've seen him at tournaments and he even gave a long, considered reply to an email I sent him seeking his expert advice on dealing with elbow pain - he went above and beyond. He clearly gets the importance of pumping energy into spreading the word of disc golf at the grass-roots level and that's marvelous. And he may be a very good presence on TV, as an ex-pro personality - just not doing the playXplay duties or leading a broadcast or narrating highlights.

Just a visual critique of Avery's performance: The visual details of Avery's presentation on TV are just too distracting as the main host and the main playXplay guy. Between his attention-grabbing jewelry, his constant fidgeting, his generally manic body movement and his non-stop wringing/pounding of his hands/fists, I didn't hear a word he said. He reminded me a lot of Ray Lewis on TV. Now I'm fine with Ray Lewis doing his thing on TV in his current capacity, I just don't want him in the booth doing color with Al Michaels on SNF.

 

[JTacoma03]

The disc golfer demographic is changing. Most of the players I see are hauling $250 bags. You're moving out of cheap, to guys who have some disposable income. If you'd asked me five years ago, I would have repeated the disc golfers are cheap trope.

That's a good point, I should be fair, it's going in a new direction.

That said, a more accurate measure of the barrier is "perceived value" - people don't have a good judge on that in a media sense, because that's a boundary we're only crossing now as a whole society of media consumers...in other words, you have traditionally bought ESPN in your bundle of channels because "oh we pay $ and we get X channels with all these programs", vs if you had to buy them individually (for example if you cable company only sold a la carte) you'd judge it all differently.

That's the problem we're in as far as a "pay-per-view" or "subscription" model. Getting enough of a niche demographic to accept your value prop is the big hurdle, especially when they can get pretty close to the same thing for free on YouTube (and always will, because the barrier to entry is so low).

Yes, Avery is clearly a great guy. My father once told me, false modesty is bad, as is thinking you can do something you can't. Be honest with yourself. Jamie and Avery have gotten better at this, but neither is a natural at it. That doesn't mean they're bad or stupid, or dumb. It just means they aren't great at this. I commend the effort they've made to improve, but they still aren't interesting, sorry. Could they be? People do hard things all the time. I might argue that going on line and saying it's boring is a bad way to go about it.

I'd assess myself at about a 970 rating after 1 event. I see areas I can improve, and I'm working on them.

This is honestly why I would love to see some broadcasting enterprise come in and try a live subscription model. Charge $x per year for x number of tournaments, and put that money into production: Multiple cameras, pre-produced assets, etc.

It'd be a risk though because, as you mentioned and we all know, disc golfers are cheap. But if you get enough cheap disc golfers to pony up, it could work.

Honestly, that will happen at some point (again, it wont' be the first try). Now that large manufacturer backed events are starting to care about media rights and start restricting access I think its an inevitability.

Then eventually someone will be the company to contract with those manufacturers in lieu of them organizing it in house (as is done now).

You can't close the free access too fast because you'll lose some following in the transition, so you have to keep the ratio consistent with the new numbers coming in due to higher quality productions (aka more entertainment)

 

[TimSyl]

I watch disc golf all the time, wife thinks I'm strange. I like the edited packages of tournaments. I can watch the lead card in usually under a 1/2 hour. IF we ever get good live coverage of disc, it'll have to be like golf, cutting from hole to hole and following multiple cards.

Avery's hand gesturing was/is extremely distracting. His repetitive phrases are annoying as well, but my guess is he'll get better.

 

[Keller]

Avery's hand gesturing was/is extremely distracting. His repetitive phrases are annoying as well, but my guess is he'll get better.

I agree. Maybe with a bit of practice and film clips that are a little slower he'll get his groove. He knows the game and is a good ambassador, just needs some polishing.