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Disc Golf World Tour
- Thread starter DavidSauls
- Start date
IllustratorVir
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 759
I enjoy listening to him as well. But like you are suggesting, he is rather new to it, right? So there is a lot of time to improve and if he keeps at it, I am sure he will. I am looking forward to it. :hfive:
Didn'tSeeThatTree
Bogey Member
Cut Avery some slack. Nice job by the team bringing quality coverage from the Czech Republic!!
Cut Avery some slack. Nice job by the team bringing quality coverage from the Czech Republic!!
I actually thought that a vast majority of comments in here about Avery have been far more positive and constructive than these kinds of things tend to go. :clap:
Didn'tSeeThatTree
Bogey Member
True, things do have a tendency to get more negative on these message boards (internet in general)...I just couldn't resist using the Ricky Bobby gif!
IllustratorVir
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 759
Personally, I really enjoyed the commentary with AJ and Terry during La Mirada. Granted, that was a live stream so it is a bit different.
My .02 cents.
1. Avery is a hand talker. I have known him for almost 15 years, always has been, always will be. He would need to be handcuffed to stop. I am sure he could work on it to get better, but I don't know if he needs to. And for the record, I really like listening to Avery talk golf.
2. Live vs Condensed. My take. Live is exciting, condensed is boring. To me, watching condensed cut footage tends to be more like reading an instruction manual. You get the knowledge, but there is no passion in it. I do enjoy when we get the inside talk of pros on the card doing commentary. Just listening to Simon and Eagle talk the back 9 of Texas States was worth it's weight in gold.
And for the record, I am under the belief that we will never be on main ESPN proper. That is my take. There isn't enough money in the sport, and I don't know if there ever will be. We play at mostly free parks, with $15 discs. Our pros are so easily accessible that there is no mystique to our game. And I love all that, but I see a future that is not as large as some. I think the future is right where we are heading, online. But, I see that as the future of everything, maybe it is my IT background that skews me.
If I had my dream scenario here is what people would get... People would be charged for the SmashBoxx.TV channel on either a per-event basis or subscription that provided live disc golf every other weekend all summer. We would have exclusive coverage of the top card (maybe 2 cards). We would also have condensed coverage, but not until about 7-10 days after the event. We would also have very limited commercials with lots of cool pieces and graphics. But... lets do some quick math.
To provide this would cost us minimum of $20K a weekend (barebones). (4 camera men, 4G data, equipment, food, hotels, 2 commentators, editor, & myself to produce the show) 20K * 12 weekends a year = $240K minimum cost. 240,000 divided by $100 (annual subscription?) = 2400 people to subscribe to the channel at $100 a year. Without that exclusiveness most people will just say... "Eh, I will wait for the condensed coverage. I would rather buy 5 new discs."
But, once you start to charge a subscription, the expectation level is about 100 times higher than it is now. If people get mad when your wireless mic dies on hole 18 at GBO and they are getting if for free, imagine what happens when they basically paid $10 to watch for the weekend.
1. Avery is a hand talker. I have known him for almost 15 years, always has been, always will be. He would need to be handcuffed to stop. I am sure he could work on it to get better, but I don't know if he needs to. And for the record, I really like listening to Avery talk golf.
2. Live vs Condensed. My take. Live is exciting, condensed is boring. To me, watching condensed cut footage tends to be more like reading an instruction manual. You get the knowledge, but there is no passion in it. I do enjoy when we get the inside talk of pros on the card doing commentary. Just listening to Simon and Eagle talk the back 9 of Texas States was worth it's weight in gold.
And for the record, I am under the belief that we will never be on main ESPN proper. That is my take. There isn't enough money in the sport, and I don't know if there ever will be. We play at mostly free parks, with $15 discs. Our pros are so easily accessible that there is no mystique to our game. And I love all that, but I see a future that is not as large as some. I think the future is right where we are heading, online. But, I see that as the future of everything, maybe it is my IT background that skews me.
If I had my dream scenario here is what people would get... People would be charged for the SmashBoxx.TV channel on either a per-event basis or subscription that provided live disc golf every other weekend all summer. We would have exclusive coverage of the top card (maybe 2 cards). We would also have condensed coverage, but not until about 7-10 days after the event. We would also have very limited commercials with lots of cool pieces and graphics. But... lets do some quick math.
To provide this would cost us minimum of $20K a weekend (barebones). (4 camera men, 4G data, equipment, food, hotels, 2 commentators, editor, & myself to produce the show) 20K * 12 weekends a year = $240K minimum cost. 240,000 divided by $100 (annual subscription?) = 2400 people to subscribe to the channel at $100 a year. Without that exclusiveness most people will just say... "Eh, I will wait for the condensed coverage. I would rather buy 5 new discs."
But, once you start to charge a subscription, the expectation level is about 100 times higher than it is now. If people get mad when your wireless mic dies on hole 18 at GBO and they are getting if for free, imagine what happens when they basically paid $10 to watch for the weekend.
Halcón
Free At Last
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2012
- Messages
- 12,038
Well, this may be an Innova thread, but I'd gladly pay $100 to watch you guys, Johnny. I paid for dgplanet.tv, and Smashboxx is providing even better coverage. Hopefully my feelings aren't the exception, and when subscriptions do start rolling out, you'll be successful.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I don't mean to be mean, but it is what it is. Italians are stereotyped for being hand talkers, Avery is way beyond that. Watch him, he uses an affected style. He's learned it for his public presentations. I cut my teeth on public presentations and I've seen it before. Even if you like Avery, and I do, he's got a ways to go. The reason that AJ did well with Terry is because of Terry. The same happens with Ian Anderson. Some commentators but the people around them at ease. They ask questions that flow into interesting replies. It's a skill that few have, and it's why more and more edited footage ends up with Ian.
You can argue how they learned it, but you can't argue that they can do it.
A point to be conceded, as Jamie has alluded to, this isn't going to be for everyone. Clearly, someone at DGWT believes the walkthroughs aren't worth it, but that wraps are. What is the bang for your ad buck? I can say that I hate ads but that the spots mixed into the full coverage stayed with me, whereas little of the material from the ads in the shorts does.
You can argue how they learned it, but you can't argue that they can do it.
A point to be conceded, as Jamie has alluded to, this isn't going to be for everyone. Clearly, someone at DGWT believes the walkthroughs aren't worth it, but that wraps are. What is the bang for your ad buck? I can say that I hate ads but that the spots mixed into the full coverage stayed with me, whereas little of the material from the ads in the shorts does.
wims
Double Eagle Member
Disc golf is very far away from being ready for pay-per-view or even a subscription service IMO. There are so few people watching live streams, how are they going to make people pay to watch? There are more people watching free live streams of mid level video game streamers on twitch than there are people watching top level disc golf live. DG viewership numbers are just as pathetic as the top prizes in the big tournaments. DG is far too niche to be ready for ppv
Major Tomahawk
Eagle Member
I watched the final 2 holes and the playoff. Not once did Avery mention that Simon was making a miraculous comeback. Avery wasn't even aware that Simon had made the playoff. Was there even a scoreboard anywhere?
corin_brown
Eagle Member
Exactly right.
I disagree that a PPV model couldn't work. DGP did Worlds coverage on a PPV basis for a couple years and they were getting a couple thousand viewers at peak. Frankly, I'm unsure why they stopped doing that as the price was reasonable ($8 to subscribe for the week) and the tech is improving while the associated costs aren't really going up.
Smashboxx's live coverage has pulled 3000-5000 simultaneous viewers for a round (JV can probably corroborate). If half of those were paying $10 to watch for the weekend, that would most likely cover the expenses he laid out.
The biggest roadblock to this isn't the lack of potential subscribers. IMO, it is the free-for-all that is the condensed coverage fragmenting the audience. While there are people going out to events of their own accord, filming, then posting the condensed footage online for free, there are going to be people electing to wait for that rather than watch live (free or PPV). We've already seen events, including the DGWT, start to put clamps down on who gets access to filming rounds. That's going to need to happen even more to make tournament coverage a product that has value worth paying for, either by the viewers or potential advertisers.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Back in the early 80's, when skateboarding was "underground" and people were skating for free on the streets or backyard ramps, nobody could have guessed that it would become as big of a deal as it is today. Nobody expected a skateboarder to become a household name (looking at you, Tony Hawk). Of course, skateboarding is a lot more fun to watch, a lot more difficult to master and a lot more dangerous than disc golf. But, if those misfits and outcasts can become somewhat mainstream and well paid for their efforts, you never know what the future may hold for our beloved little activity.
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
Live disc golf is kind of meh for me. Main problem is the fact that it is a low budget operation compared to live ball golf for instance. You only get two cameras following one group. Action is a bit slow.
I like the edited footage, boom 30 minutes, done and done. I especially like when the pro's themselves do the commentary so you get an inside look at what they were thinking/throwing.
I like the edited footage, boom 30 minutes, done and done. I especially like when the pro's themselves do the commentary so you get an inside look at what they were thinking/throwing.
Major Tomahawk
Eagle Member
Geoff and Johnny Lissaman (DG HOFers) have been saying this exact thing for 20 years.
LukeButch
Birdie Member
smashboxx is headed in the right direction with tournament and/or advertisers paying for the crew to come in and film. We as viewers are just too spoiled by all the free videos to pay, also most people don't watch it live. Especially as the season gets busier alot of DG fanatics are out playing on the weekend not at home watching online.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
A few things to consider. For a long time I disagreed with then notion that like skateboarding we could hit it mainstream, but I'm beginning to come around. I simply didn't think there would be the money. That is changing. It isn't just the bags, it's the apparel and all the extras that go along with the discs. DGers are beginning to invest more in needless junk to play and that money will drive a lot, please see Addidas. More importantly, the source of that money is changing. When I started, there were a handful of what I would call professional types playing. Guys with degrees. Now, I know more guys with degrees playing than guys with out degrees. Furthermore, the number of guys in the prime buying age category is growing in what seems to be a big way.
G and J seemed very wrong years ago, now I'm beginning to think they were correct.
SD86
Banned
If I may come from a slightly different angle here: I trade the Stock Market, and from this I have learned that one thing these television/video companies need is CONTENT. They need content in a big, big way. No, DG is not likely to be on ESPN prime time... but ESPN2 and ESPN3 need content. The SEC Network needs content. The NBC, CBS, and Fox Sports channels need content.
So there might could be a DG niche in the future. It won't be lucrative like golf ball golf, but something COULD happen eventually, if the right people get together to make it happen. That we see aces on the ESPN Top 10s is a very, very good sign.
Secondly, I agree that for right now Smashboxx has the generally correct formula. I don't think full-on PPV will really generate a lot, but a very reasonable rate ($5 for a full tournament, or so) would bring in some cash flow. IMHO, someone is going to hit on the right formula, and soon.
Third, coverage: having marshaled golf ball golf tournaments before, DG is very similar vis-a-vis video/tv coverage. We have some good people doing yeoman's work with just a couple of cameras per hole; imagine what a professional crew can do, even on technical/wooded holes. One thing the golf ball golf coverage crews do is go from group to group, so that the viewers don't see long breaks in the action, and of course they can do tape delay/replays. What I'm getting to is that coverage is NOT going to be a problem.
As to spectators... again, things can be worked out. I don't know if DG will ever get the huge crowds of golf ball golf, but even (relatively) larger DG crowds can be accommodated with a little thought and pre-planning. I also suspect that if DG gets coverage, then there will be more (not less) tournaments on open courses or mostly open... because viewers want to see those Sockibombs, Lizotte throwing discs into orbit, and McBeth canning putts from 120 ft. out.
Anyway, IMHO the future for DG is brighter, not dimmer.
So there might could be a DG niche in the future. It won't be lucrative like golf ball golf, but something COULD happen eventually, if the right people get together to make it happen. That we see aces on the ESPN Top 10s is a very, very good sign.
Secondly, I agree that for right now Smashboxx has the generally correct formula. I don't think full-on PPV will really generate a lot, but a very reasonable rate ($5 for a full tournament, or so) would bring in some cash flow. IMHO, someone is going to hit on the right formula, and soon.
Third, coverage: having marshaled golf ball golf tournaments before, DG is very similar vis-a-vis video/tv coverage. We have some good people doing yeoman's work with just a couple of cameras per hole; imagine what a professional crew can do, even on technical/wooded holes. One thing the golf ball golf coverage crews do is go from group to group, so that the viewers don't see long breaks in the action, and of course they can do tape delay/replays. What I'm getting to is that coverage is NOT going to be a problem.
As to spectators... again, things can be worked out. I don't know if DG will ever get the huge crowds of golf ball golf, but even (relatively) larger DG crowds can be accommodated with a little thought and pre-planning. I also suspect that if DG gets coverage, then there will be more (not less) tournaments on open courses or mostly open... because viewers want to see those Sockibombs, Lizotte throwing discs into orbit, and McBeth canning putts from 120 ft. out.
Anyway, IMHO the future for DG is brighter, not dimmer.
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