Disc minimalism vs Mold minimalism

[jdggna]

No, Disc minimalism is taking Mold minimalism to a greater extreme. Because I can carry 5 molds, but still carry 20 disc.

Yes, yes it is...now I can't decide if this is what I meant or if that fact completely slipped by me...

Thinking out loud more than anything else here...
We'll use a smaller bag instead of a 15+ disc bag for this. Say you want 6 different flight patterns though: overstable driver, stable/neutral driver, understable driver, overstable/stable mid, neutral/understable mid, and a putter. With disc minimalism you would have 6 discs which are potentially 6 different molds. With mold minimalism you still have 6 discs, but you can cover it with 3 molds. Both represent disc minimalism, but only one represents mold minimalism. This is what I was thinking of with my statement.

I'm not really sure which philosophy I'm following. Probably mold minimalism more than anything else. I carry 17 discs, made up of 5 molds. Out of those discs, I have 11 unique ones and the others are backups (same weight, plactic, color...I just grab either one at random from the bag). I don't consider backup discs as outside of disc minimalism's principles, but once you have separate discs (whether the same mold or not) for separate shots I think it is branching away from it.

Now I don't really know where that places me on what is a sub-set of what and what the potential benefits are, but I can say that I think either one (or both) is vastly better for a developing player at any level than carrying 25 different discs that are 25 different molds.

Maybe neither one is a sub-set of the other...more of a Venn diagram sort of thing.

 

[jdggna]

...

Those have been my thoughts for the most part. I for one feel like I could get by with 3 or 4 discs, and be at no disadvantage compared to my regular bag.

 

[charris414]

agree with Lithicon's post ...

My interpretation of mold minimalism is this: I carry multiple Star Sidewinders at various weights and stability. Same mold, same grip, same plastic, slightly different flights based on changes in weight and stability in order to adjust to different holes on different courses in different weather conditions. Apply to putters, mid-ranges, fairway drivers, and distance drivers.

Disc minimalism is carrying one star sidewinder and making it fly every which way I need it REGARDLESS of its weight or stability in whatever condition I am faced with.

 

[VictorB]

ya'll postin in a troll thread














also: disc skill > minimalism

 

[Spinach D1]

Whatever works for getting the lines you need.

I do value little differences in the same mold. For insance, I carry three Wraiths: One domey, one flatter and one in between for fading, turning, and straight shots or slightly different wind conditions etc. I have a lot of experience and confidence with them. If I lose one, I know what to look for in my next Wraith. If I lost one during a round, I can compensate with one of the others.

I have to say, however, that I am moving away from mold minimalism in base line plastics. I like a very beat dx teebird for turnovers, and i like a brand new one, but I don't really value all the confusion in between. I wish I could find a premium plastic disc that behaves like my very understable dx teebird because it would be so much easier to replace. The Meteor comes close, but that is a different post.

 

[paul buyun]

I have a 6 mold bag. Each individual mold is the same weight and plastic. I carry 15 individual discs. 3-Pro Wraith, 4-Champ Valk, 2-Champ Tbird, 2-Star Skeeter, 1-KC Pro Roc, 3-Star Aero. I could carry less discs, but I want to have backups in case I lose one (like I did with my perfectly seasoned Pro Wraith this past week, doggone it!).

I haven't been playing long (16 months), but when I started I was buying all sorts of different molds. One didn't do what I wanted it to do, so I'd get another disc. After a while I had a nice variety of discs, but still played for crap. I also had spent a good chunk of change for a pile of discs while trying to explain to my wife that, "No, they aren't all frisbees. They are discs with different flight patterns and stabilities that can do different thin.... Stability is how much, or fast, a disc will turn at a certain point in its.... No, they aren't all frisbees."

Mold minimalism helped/forced me to choose from this pile, those discs that would provide the greatest range of flight patterns to get me to the target. I am only now comfortable with the disc selection I have made, and have learned how to use this selection best, for my abilities. My scores have improved because of this. As my skill level improves, I may experiment with other discs that can add to my game, but I will, hopefully, be wiser in the discs that I choose.

I think that mold minimalism works to help newer players focus on skill sets and seeing what lines can be created by throw (FH, BH, OH, thumber, etc.), and stability (over, neutral, under). After these skills are developed to a comfort level, then working in various other discs can help to round out a players overall game.

But what do I know?

 

[masterbeato]

lets pretend a roc is as beat in as an out of the box stingray stability would be roughly.

still....not the same disc....the roc will still stable out eventually, a new stingray will not because they are not stable to begin with.

you are comparing completely different molds. a roc is a staple in the bag for people going through a learning curve.

would you agree if i said a brand new roc is comparable to a brand new stingray? do not make me go into micro flight specifics. lol

a roc is rated a HSS 0, LSS +2.5 on the flight chart, a beat in roc is 0, +2.5. do you know why it never changes? because it still has the same fade regardless of its wear.

a stingray is rated HSS -2.5, LSS +2 - does not change.

 

[thatdirtykid]

but because I can practice the SAME shot 3-4 times on a given hole.

Practicing a hole over and over is not good practice IMO.
First off unless your course seldom has anyone else playing it, this is annoying.
Secondly when it comes to playing a serious round, you don't get a second shot. It can create a bad mentality when playing in round. A lot of top pros suggest practice putting with just two putters, so you are less likely to get into "rapid fire" putting habits. Practice how you play.
Practicing a single hole over and over will make you more comfortable on that specific hole, however going out to a field and practicing the same shot as well as others may not help you gain confidence on multiple holes that use similar shots.


(sorry I play a course that regularly has a wait on every tee box, and its painful to see a guy empty his bag. Usually this results in hackers throwing in on everyone playing slower than them)

 

[grizzles]

but because I can practice the SAME shot 3-4 times on a given hole.

Practicing a hole over and over is not good practice IMO.
First off unless your course seldom has anyone else playing it, this is annoying.
Secondly when it comes to playing a serious round, you don't get a second shot. It can create a bad mentality when playing in round. A lot of top pros suggest practice putting with just two putters, so you are less likely to get into "rapid fire" putting habits. Practice how you play.
Practicing a single hole over and over will make you more comfortable on that specific hole, however going out to a field and practicing the same shot as well as others may not help you gain confidence on multiple holes that use similar shots.


(sorry I play a course that regularly has a wait on every tee box, and its painful to see a guy empty his bag. Usually this results in hackers throwing in on everyone playing slower than them)

That's a solid point. I am involved in the management of our local club. As such, I see myself as an ambassador of the sport and take etiquette seriously. I would never make anyone wait on me to throw multiple shots. I am always irritated when I am waiting on a group which doesn't respect that.

Different strokes for different folks. I practice the same shot multiple times on the same hole because I want to get that shot down. Throwing shots is throwing shots to me. I'd prefer to throw at a target with obstacles than in a field. I am not disciplined enough in the field to do anything other than try and crush every drive. I disagree that throwing the same shot multiple times on a given hole only prepares you for that hole. Again, throwing shots is throwing shots IMO. On the other hand, I play the same course nearly everyday, usually by myself, and am always trying to beat my personal best. So, dialing in a hole is useful to me. Just my $0.02

I do practice with only 2 putters after watching the Mark Ellis putting confidence vid.

J

 

[discspeed]

Practice is practice. If you get 4 discs that fly differently to fly on the same line, you are certainly honing a skill and simultaneously learning a good deal about your discs. I like to practice on the course, but I don't play at busy times. I go out to my home course in the middle of the day (when its 90 with 85% humidity) and I've got the place to myself...I can get 5-6 rounds worth of practice in 2 hours. You need to practice how you play, but that is just one kind of practice. Its hard to do this in disc golf because each round has its own surprises and unique shots in store for you...If you never threw second shots you may be faced with a throw that you haven't practiced in years.

Even when I practiced on very busy courses I felt that if I was playing by myself that I had the right to throw multiple shots...If not I would constantly be trying to play through 4,5, and 6somes.

 

[Spike1]

I was always under the impression that minimalism=mold minimalism on this board. I practice that to some degree, but definitely not disc minimalism. With mold min two of the most compelling arguments (to me) are: 1) learn a handful of molds very well 2) have rotations of discs at various stages of wear (so you don't have a huge hole in your bag when you lose one).

I can think of no compelling arguments for disc minimalism.

I carry 3 wraiths, 4 teebirds, 3 leopards and 3 buzzz on the course not because each disc of a given mold is slightly different than the others (of course, they are), but because I can practice the SAME shot 3-4 times on a given hole. There's also something to be said for practicing several different shots, but for me practicing the same one is more effective. In any case, I can't think of any situation where NOT practicing shots due to dogged adherence to disc minimalism is beneficial.

Of course, if you are interested in disc min (perhaps you want to carry only 3-4 discs b/c you run the course), then you MUST practice mold min. I could take 5 discs (above + putter) on a trip where I was somehow limited in discs and not have a single hole in my bag.

Mold min works for me, but I would never argue that it is the right way to do things. On the other hand, I cannot think of any benefit to carrying an arbitrarily low number of discs in any number of molds.

J

I see it the other way around and can only see very few (the practice argument), general arguments for mold minimalism.
Mold minimalism is based on consistency. Disc minimalism is based on the "work with what you got" idea. I see the points of working with what you got and keep it simple. I don't see the points with sticking to specific molds, because you can't really trust molds I think - only discs.

So the way I see it, mold minimalism is an idea of molds being something that you can trust, and I don't trust any mold at all, simply because I don't think disc production has proved to be stable over time. When staying with the same molds, you still need to spend time to try the discs out continuously to know how their characteristics change. But the thing is… it doesn't take forever to learn a new disc (no matter if it is a mold that is new to you or not). And that's why I think that the points of mold minimalism are few, if any, other than for preferential things like grip for instance.

The way I see disc minimalism, it's not so much based on molds, weights or plastics, but on that "work with what you got"-philosophy, or "learn what you got". Keep it simple, and keep your bag light. Live with your discs and with how they change, rather than trust a certain manufacturer's ability to make discs that will work the same. You can still try out new disc molds and to change molds, just as long as you try to learn their capacities and how each disc will behave in various situations. Just pick a disc and learn it. If it doesn't work for you; change. Of course, you will need to have some patience with the discs in order to learn them.

I don't practice any of these ideas strictly, but disc minimalism is an idea that I'm inspired by, and that makes sense to me.

 

[holyschemp1]

Haven't read all four pages--I've read 2. However, I think it (Mold) comes down to this simple idea: You gotta know the rules before you break them.

Learning with a few molds, you figure out subtleties of disc flight. Controlling nose angles and throwing hard hyzers and turnovers with discs that may not be the perfect disc for that shot. Once you have that ability, you can pull a feldberg and have as many discs as you want. Feldberg himself states that he started out with an innova DX driver. If you can learn this way, you will be at the mercy of the disc less often--even if that disc is the ideal one for the shot--because you will know exactly what to do with it.

As for disc minimalism...which I'm interpreting as the sheer number of discs...I'd say it'd be strictly for the convenience of carrying them. No point in having too many discs and getting tired. In tourneys, on the other hand, it'd be kind of stupid to go in without fielding the best bag you could which ideally would include a few backups and discs that make your life easier. Learn to throw a hard hyzer with a teebird, but if you're in a funk and you know you're feeling better about that shot with a firebird or FL, throw that.