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Hey there,
I am stuck with my throw. I am scratching 400ft on a good day.
It looks like I am reaching too far back or not weight shifting properly? I am thankfull for any advice.
Hey there,
I am stuck with my throw. I am scratching 400ft on a good day.
It looks like I am reaching too far back or not weight shifting properly? I am thankfull for any advice.
Posture heading into the plant from the drive step is wrong. See in the attached image how Bradley Williams has his shoulders slanted down into a more aggressive posture. Notice how his center of gravity is much closer to over top of his x-step whereas your weight is lagging behind. Getting the shoulder sloped forward will help you get your weight forward.
Thank you very much. This feels now alot better and way more powerful. I am not sure if I am leaning now too much forward when the disc is at the powerpocket? Here is a video.
I have been playing around with the reachback too. Making it quick and more like a fast whip.
It seems like my center of Gravity stays more in the middle now. What do you think?
Thank you very much. This feels now alot better and way more powerful. I am not sure if I am leaning now too much forward when the disc is at the powerpocket? Here is a video.
Yeah, you're leaned forward way too much at the plant. Notice how in the first video your posture is ok until the x-step, you're not leaned behind at all before that.
Thank you very much. This feels now alot better and way more powerful. I am not sure if I am leaning now too much forward when the disc is at the powerpocket? Here is a video.
I have been playing around with the reachback too. Making it quick and more like a fast whip.
It seems like my center of Gravity stays more in the middle now. What do you think?
Second vid might be slightly improved from the first but I think still a similar issue. You're already naturally quick, but I think you need to develop the feel for more patience and "heavy momentum" in the swing overall.
See the attached img of you vs. Eagle. Compared to your first vid, notice how Eagle keeps his shoulders loaded back farther as he plants, and his front hip is a bit more closed. He has lots of time and space to get planted and then swing. Right now you kind of rush into the plant slightly open. In both videos your plant stride could be slightly shorter. You also have a collapsing front shoulder/some rounding since you're pitching forward into the swing rather than planting and swinging the shoulder over top of the legs.
This drill is worth its weight in gold and I return to his little shift drill frequently. You want to do this regardless of the stride length. When you shift "from behind" and lead a bit more with your butt in a more compact stride it will help.
The backswing is IMO one of the most commonly misunderstood parts of the swing and if you do it wrong it almost always leads to rushing into the plant because you aren't properly balanced. It should feel more like a heave. You need to "let go" of your arm feeling like its heavy just like the backswing of a golf club or axe. You want the weight of the axe to keep it moving back away form you as your body shifts forward, creating the "sling" effect:
When you "heave" more in the backswing, it will keep your weight back and high and help keep you in balance. The drill sequence I show here gets at this idea. Weights are always useful but you also need to get it to work with the disc, so you can use the drill I show at the end there to help force your arm to feel "heavy" in the backswing. This doesn't solve all the posture stuff on its own but does help with the "heave" and gives you the sense of much more time from the beginning to the end of the swing. Posture may or may not sort itself out, we'll see.
Then as you stride into the plant, your center of gravity opposes that "heavy" arm/disc, pulling the arm taut and slinging it forward.
The full body "whip" is the overall effect of your posture and mechanics on the disc at the end of the swing. The faster you go the more "whippy" everything will feel overall. But the "heave" will feel like a rubber band stretching you out taut along the line I show in the attached image (dashed is behind me relative to the camera). This is the same idea as Seabas22 Inside Swing.
Thank you Brychanus.
I think I have been trying to lead the throw with hips. And by that I was opening/rotating them opening them.
But I see now especially in eagles drive that his hip isnt rotating open. Instead he is bracing against it. Its like his elbow is almost raming into his right hip. Or as if his right hip is trying to catch his elbow.
Thank you Brychanus.
I think I have been trying to lead the throw with hips. And by that I was opening/rotating them opening them.
But I see now especially in eagles drive that his hip isnt rotating open. Instead he is bracing against it. Its like his elbow is almost raming into his right hip. Or as if his right hip is trying to catch his elbow.
Keep in mind that it can look like "ramming," but it actually feels very fluid and smooth when it's well integrated - thus "swimming" through.
I used to be on the fence but I've become a staunch opponent of any "engage" or "rotate" the hips talk because it's not clear what those terms mean, and they're often describing the wrong or dangerous action. It's so easy to get the legs & hips wrong. The hips swivel in a Figure 8 forward & back & up & down, but they swivel because of your posture and legs acting against the ground. So learning posture & getting your weight in the right places and how your legs should work will get you there. I'd recommend working on that little shift drill a bit and the plant stride and see what we get.
Yeah
I noticed is how my plant leg is pointed before the plant. The foot is hanging down pointing rather forward. While in eagle for example the toes are pointing back and the heel is pointing towards the target.
So I have found that my plant foot goes way to far making my stance too wide and my hips immobile.
By decreasing the distance between my feet I feel like I can finally utilize my hips properly.
It does look though like my shoulder is still too high on the pull through. Also my reach back isnt fully extended however I was so concentrated on my feet and hips that I kind of forgot the rest. Are those at least better now?
It does feel very powerfull and snappy.
X-step is too long and you are rising into the throw.
X-step needs to be shorter to allow the CoG to move ahead of it. See you vs. Eagle in the attached image. This helps allow you to drop forward & down into the plant.
Notice that your rear foot is pointed farther back than Eagle - you may need it tucked a bit more toward the front of tee.
Still some rounding in the top line, the feet are contributing to that.
Word to the wise - careful with head "swing thoughts." Lemme throw these nugget down too since it has helped me to leave "head stuff" in the rear view mirror. Focus on getting good posture and letting the head do what it does within that posture.
Yes I have read about the head issue.
But I just tried it only looking forward at the target(instead of down at my feet like before) when going into the xstep and as soon as my right foot hits the ground and my legs start crossing I dont worry about my head any more. This does seem to help to get my cog forward moving and also seems to improve my accuracy.
I am abit confused about the tips I have recieved here about getting my cog forward. There is talk aber leading with my right butt cheek in the xstep but at the same time I see the pros like in that recent image with eagle leading with his elbow when crossing the legs. So Which is now correct or does it depend on where in the xstep we are talking about?
The elbow leading is due to his posture. Notice that Eagle has more forward tilt heading into the X-step and thus his elbow appears to lead relative to his posture. But in form you should learn to look from the ground up to see how the lower body sets up the upper body for success. So when we say "butt leading" it's more about the following:
Leading with the butt is about getting the CoG forward and setting up the "butt wipe" move SW22 talks about, or the "Hogan power move" in ball golf. If your hips and posture and tilt are correct in the X-step, you will "hinge" from the rear hip into the plant with the CoG forward and your weight moving forward and down.
Most people have incorrect posture heading into the X-step so they can't set up the correct butt wipe and shift. The seabas22 butt wipe drill helps you isolate the fundamental action I'm describing here. It can take some time to get the hang of initially since it may feel foreign at first. I still work on it when I'm adjusting stuff now.
So I have been trying the hershyzer drill and try to take it to the field. The throw still doesnt feel that good. Not sure what I am doing wrong. Maybe my timing is off? Pulling through to early maybe what for the heel of my front foot to hit the ground and then pull through the disc?
I learned to think about maintaining balance in good posture, which tends to make the timing happen more naturally. Your swing still looks more patient and appears to flow well, so that's good.
You're not quite loading/coming off the rear leg correctly. Notice how you are low and sinking into your rear leg and then rising as you swing. You want the opposite - load & hinge from the rear hip down and lead your weight drift forward and down into the plant. The motion pattern should be high-low-high - athletic stance and relatively high in the windup, low in the siwng, and high in the follow through.
Right now, you're reaching and landing slightly open with the plant foot and then bunching up a bit behind the brace, prohibiting the full "butt wipe" and "shift form behind, and causing you to fall back away from the target after the release. That's probably why it feels a little janky.
Would keeping focusing on Hershyzer and how you load/get off the rear leg. It's also sometimes helpful to post you doing the drill itself because that can reveal hitches in the basic motion pattern.
Thanks I will try to work on that.
Another thing I noticed is that my upper body is still not staying centered. On reachback its tilting towards the disc. I think I am gonna try to do the opposite and tilt forward towards my brace foot when I reach back.
Here in this 2017 european open nate doss' drive looks almost as if he is leaning towards his front foot on reachback. Building from the ground up this is the result of the leading with the butt check/moving from behind?
Also his feet are so wide apart and I thought my feet are way too wide
Thanks I will try to work on that.
Another thing I noticed is that my upper body is still not staying centered. On reachback its tilting towards the disc. I think I am gonna try to do the opposite and tilt forward towards my brace foot when I reach back.
TL;DR - We can probably help you understand and fix your posture and its worth it.
You do want to have good tilt, but remember that it needs to be part of the entire posture. This isn't always easy depending on your sports background. I've come to realize this is actually a pretty "black and white" issue in disc golf and ball golf (and hockey, baseball, etc). You either have good athletic posture and tilt for each swing, or you don't. It'll look a little different in each sport and for each person due to their anatomy, but the mechanics are the same. Let me try to help summarize what I've learned about it (and how to learn it) here.
Here in this 2017 european open nate doss' drive looks almost as if he is leaning towards his front foot on reachback. Building from the ground up this is the result of the leading with the butt check/moving from behind? Also his feet are so wide apart and I thought my feet are way too wide
Let me help dispel one of disc golf's biggest "illusions", which will help explain how posture and stride position and stride length work together. The illusion is related to what SW22 calls "Simon Syndrome" and has to do with looking at static postures and (slow) motion and trying to map it to yourself. Here's the video you took the screenshot from:
Wow, that's pretty slow!
Here's how fast Doss actually moves when he strides like that:
There are many differences between the 3X World Champion and people like you and me. Sure, our bodies are different, but the key here is that Doss has exceptional balance and posture trained over thousands of shots in better and better balance in posture. There's a chance you can go fast and stride like that and get the posture, but at this point I've seen enough form reviews to know that if you don't work hard on your posture early, you're basically missing out on making the longer strides feel more like a piece of cake rather than their own project. It's the closest thing to a "cheat code" for form development that there is, and everyone wants to rush past it to the finish line.
Doss has to stride like that to get leverage to transfer the force due to the speed he's bringing into the swing like a skier slaloming resisting the snow. His plant leg is angling to get the ideal transfer. But the reason his posture over his legs looks the way it does is because he has a clean, optimal (for his body) backswing and downswing tilt over his legs. It's easier to learn all that in a more compact range of motion (even if its fairly quick!), then later you can add more stride/speed.
This is one of the many things I have struggled with mightily in my form even after my swing got mechanically more fluid and pretty loose and freewheeling. I think working first on the Hershyzer and Clement "Shift from behind" drill are the right place to start. Gotta get the feel for the shift and those hips working in a compact way, and you have to have decent posture to do that right.
But in my experience, backswing and downswing posture is still tough once you start striding/moving faster since your body always wants to overmuscle that little plastic circle and you can still throw pretty far with a couple posture mistakes. SW22 gets it right in his Power of Posture video. When learning it, I personally have had so many struggles with posture that I started to experiment again to help my body understand the "good" vs "bad" posture.
I found this kettlebell video from Clement very helpful to understand the swing and how to find the right posture for my body with a kettlebell. Doing swings with two hands at first helps "force" your whole body to find the right balance and posture to get that "effortless" swing back and forth. Then, you can swing kettlebells/hammers one handed like a disc toward the line of play. The main difference between ball golf and disc golf is that you'll bring the posture lower/more forward over the front leg (like Power of Posture and other SW22 content discusses), and you will stride more for bigger shots. The better the posture is in the backswing and downswing, the easier it is to learn bigger strides. Some people get it faster than others.
