[Question] Firebirds Illegal!

[tarel]

guess the max's i have in my sig would be just as bad as teh flatops

 

[KniceZ]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the flex standard was determined. If it's concussion I would think it would be max weight. Otherwise I would think force per contact area. The real safety standard can't be the same to putters and drivers.

It seems totally arbitrary!! And to top it off - inconsistent enforcement.

 

[onemilemore]

It seems totally arbitrary!! And to top it off - inconsistent enforcement.

Did you expect anything less from disc golf?

 

[jasonc]

I still think safety should be the responsibility of the players. Granted, a manufacturer shouldn't ever build discs with serated edges or razor blades on them, that would be a weapon, not sporting equipment.

Check this out.....the fun stuff starts at 1:22 for those that have no patience. :thmbup:

 

[theeterrbear]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the flex standard was determined. If it's concussion I would think it would be max weight. Otherwise I would think force per contact area. The real safety standard can't be the same to putters and drivers.

The difference in weights isn't entirely negligible, but the amount of energy in the disc is mostly influenced by velocity.

e=mv^2 where m is mass in kilograms and v is velocity in kilometers per hour. So even at max PDGA legal weights, we aren't even cracking .2kg.

And then when it comes to impacts I would rather be hit by a flexible disc all day. What matters here is the length of the impulse, which is the transfer of energy through the collision. A longer impulse means that the energy transfer is less violent essentially. And with more flexible discs you will lose more energy to the warping of the disc during the impulse, making it much better to be hit by a soft disc than a stiff one.

Regarding the surface area of getting hit by a driver versus putter I completely agree. Putters have a huge amount of surface area on there edges in comparison, which also helps to dissipate the energy upon impact.

Not to mention that putters travel a lot slower, so it would be difficult to even get the same amount of energy into either.

It's an ill-written rule that's meant as a blanket. The blanket no longer fits, however.

 

[mashnut]

Not to mention that putters travel a lot slower, so it would be difficult to even get the same amount of energy into either.

That depends on where in the flight it hits someone. If it's right out of the hand, a putter actually can leave your hand faster than a driver on a full strength throw. If it's later in the flight after air resistance has had time to work then you're right, the putter is going much slower.

 

[HiFi]

No one seems to be pointing out that it's the plastic that would be illegal, not the mold.

Firebirds and Wizards are perfectly legal, they just had to change the plastic blend.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I think everybody's missing a point here. There is no vast conspiracy against Gateway. They sent those discs to the PDGA of their own free will, and someone noticed how stiff they were.

It's like sending pot-laced brownies as a donation to the police fund bake sale.

I heard that Dunipace picked out a bunch of Wizards to send.



I'd feel bad about adding almost nothing with a necrobump, but I missed this thread, and wanted to give anyone else that also missed it the second chance that I've received.

 

[ThomasOrion]

None of this makes any sense.

I understand WEIGHT restiction/rules I understand SIZE (like Diameter, thickness, shape) But if it is a disc shape, within the weight and diameter and thickness guidelines....Why would it matter???
It's not like a stiff disc makes it any easier. It just doesnt make sense. I have a disc that has a sticker on it. 'technically it would be illegal (i think). But who honestly gives a ****. If anything my sticker would **** up the disc...not HELP it.
I say if its a disc...you can play. ****, Throw a Vinyl record for all I care.

 

[smyith]

None of this makes any sense.

I understand WEIGHT restiction/rules I understand SIZE (like Diameter, thickness, shape) But if it is a disc shape, within the weight and diameter and thickness guidelines....Why would it matter???
It's not like a stiff disc makes it any easier. It just doesnt make sense. I have a disc that has a sticker on it. 'technically it would be illegal (i think). But who honestly gives a ****. If anything my sticker would **** up the disc...not HELP it.
I say if its a disc...you can play. ****, Throw a Vinyl record for all I care.

first off none of the **** junk is necessary...grow up a lil at least, you can still be a troll with more elegant use of your keyboard. second, if its a rule that is not enforced then why have the rule at all? Rules like that only get busted out to go after a target. and yes I am implying something here.
and lastly it is not the disc that is illegal, I don't understand why people think disc means plastic...the disc comes in more than one plastic. that is why personally I think that the plastic blends should be approved separately of the disc and the disc themselves no longer require a flex test.

 

[primal dg]

I have a couple discs that defiantly wouldnt pass

 

[jenb]

Too bad we can't play tournaments with these.

Of course, anything goes in a casual round. These rules only apply to tournaments, you know. I actually don't see how a manufacturer ought to be required to pull a run of a disc from sale just because the plastic blend didn't work out for PDGA play. For example, manufacturers are still allowed to sell overweight discs. Everyone knows the "PDGA Approved" stamp merely refers to the mold, and that players can be called for using discs in tournaments that are illegal for various reasons, including overweight, hole in the disc, etc. Caveat Emptor!

 

[smyith]

jump to 2:18 for some reason wont let me set what time to start at

 

[Alexplz]

I feel like the REAL question is how is it possible that a homegrown test posted to a forum would provide the PDGA with any new information? OP states it's not even a particularly stiff firebird - I would expect there to be at least, I dunno, one dude with PDGA who would grab a disc off the shelf at PIAS and test it every once in a while.

If I were a member, I would call for a thorough overhaul of the rules and specifications governing what we consider to be a legal disc. Threads get posted daily where people debate the legality of disc mods, repairs, flexibility, etc. Someone inevitably quotes PDGA text and where does it ever get us? Nowhere.

I say overhaul the rules or pay an individual to respond to threads like this one as a judge. Clear, specific, disambiguated rules that could be interpreted by anyone would be preferable.

 

[Grungedude42]

Why was this dragged up? Wasn't this more or less resolved last summer? They're not going to flex test at tourneys.

 

[smyith]

I would expect there to be at least, I dunno, one dude with PDGA who would grab a disc off the shelf at PIAS and test it every once in a while.

and thats were the favortism comes into play. when a rule is only "sometimes" enforced it tends to be used against the "enemies" of the "big dog(s)."

it is dang tempting to make a compliant to the PDGA about champ firebirds just to shake things up. see if anything actually happens....tho alot of you would hate me for a long time if you couldnt throw your champ firebirds anymore....

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Wouldnt temp where tested impact this a lot?

 

[elmexdela]

nothing like rekindling an old flame opcorn:

 

[smyith]

Wouldnt temp where tested impact this a lot?

yes and is apart of the testing. which is why field testing isnt really feasible. but submitting plastic samples to the PDGA is. but that might require one of the big boys to stop buying their plastic in lots and actually pay for a consistent blend...so fat chance on that.

 

[hugheshilton]

Why was this dragged up? Wasn't this more or less resolved last summer? They're not going to flex test at tourneys.

I'll bite. How was it resolved? The last post before this recent spat of posts was in January, so I'm assuming whatever resolution you're referring to isn't in this thread somewhere.