[Question] Firebirds Illegal!

[CBoyle]

-I'm pretty sure my Z hornet will not pass this flex test. Considering its a super flat dinner plate with absolutely no bend. I don't think I could even get it to bend 10%.


-I also have yet to see an official statement claiming the medium wizard or G9i has been banned. If there is no official statement then that would mean they haven't been banned.

 

[CBoyle]

-If the ban was done internally from a PDGA spot test; and it has been said that the discs out there are perfectly fine, then why haven't the PDGA said anything official about it. This leads me to believe this is just a good rumor that has snowballed.

 

[Tiny]

pdga is ran by innova, why would they ban one of their best discs?

 

[BionicRib]

"Have you ever made discs that were too stiff per the PDGA during the past 15 years?"

"Yes"

"Did you knowingly produce discs that were too stiff?"

"Yes"

"Did you consider it to be cheating?"

"No, we looked up the definition of cheating. We viewed it as competing on a level playing field"

Sorry guys......but this is the best post in this thread. So far the best of the year IMO

 

[doctor professor]

Sorry guys......but this is the best post in this thread. So far the best of the year IMO

Agreed

 

[Three Putt]

@ThreePutt

I read somewhere in the wiz thread that gateway essentially called themselves out on their legality and then labeled them illegal. Im paraphrasing of course. Did i dream that up? Are they wrong?

I don't think anything is illegal. Gateway agreed not to sell any more G9i's or Mediums. There was something floating around about the PDGA wanting to call anything with the stamp on the G9i's illegal, but Gateway has used that stamp on a lot of short runs (I had a couple organics with that stamp a few years ago) so that wasn't going to work. As to what initiated it, I thought it was said that Gateway sent some G9i's to the IDGC pro shop and the PDGA pulled those and tested them. I don't know that to be fact, though.

 

[spikodelhyzer]

This is hilarious. I don't know about you guys but I ALWAYS wear jeans and sweatshirt even though I keep my garage at 77F in the winter...

I too enjoy posting things that let people know I didn't read something correctly.

 

[elnino]

i'm a firebird lover! great disc. i also like firm wizards when i'm push putting!

but i never get that lump in my throat tossing a wizard down the fairway and then realizing someone is practice putting on a blind hole or strolling thru the park or just forgot a disc and runs back to basket to get it! if i throw a glow firebird i would scream fore and panic big time. those really are probably the most dangerous and i always carry them but i actually check twice b4 throwing them because it really would do some damage.

 

[JeremyKShort]

The rule that has been quoted here a couple of times says that discs cannot be tested ABOVE 77 degrees- i.e. you can't perform the test at a temp so hot that your disc is half melting. A lot of you seem to have read that wrong and gotten the opposite impression. Also, I didn't see any mention of a TD being able to test a disc during a tourney, the quoted rule indicates this type of testing should be performed on a disc mold to ensure the legality of that mold, not on individual discs. All of you saying how this rule would be unenforceable seem to have missed that point as well. Sorry for sounding douchey, but I think if people understand the rule a bit better they may revise their opinions.

As for my opinion, I think it is kind of strange that the disc most recently declared illegal is a putter, which most of us can agree will cause the least amount of damage, due to both the lower speed and fatter rim, which helps distribute the impact. I would much rather take a stiff Wizard to the head than a legal Firebird (why does that sound dirty?). I am not sure if I am fer or agin the stiffness rules, but I am of the opinion that if the rule is enforced it should be enforced consistently.

I'm surprised there's no lower limit on the temperature. Technically, you could test a disc in a freezer at 0F, where most any disc would fail.

Do we know if there are any discs that have not been given approved status due to failing? I know that Flywood's stuff didn't get approved partially because of the flex rule (although it's wood and failed on that as well). If other companies couldn't get their stuff out there because of the flex rule, then it's really a shame others are able to blatantly disregard it.

 

[Three Putt]

The PDGA doesn't formally announce discs that fail. There hasn't been a PDGA announcement of the G9i failing, but Gateway has been telling people that they did. We have no way of knowing what discs have been tested, what discs have failed and what (if any) punishment there was. We only know it if the Manufacturer reveals it.

Steve Howle said that his original run of F-15 Eagles were too small in diameter; the "floater" plastic shrunk more than he expected. He either had to alter the plastic mix or alter the mold, and I'm not sure which one he did. At any rate, he released the original run without "PDGA Approved" on the stamp, resubmitted the disc after he worked out the problem, got the disc approved and put them on the market with "PDGA Approved" on the stamp. None of that was announced by the PDGA. The only reason we knew what was going on was because when you called Lightning to order Eagles, Steve would tell you the deal. That really hasn't changed.

 

[Jay Dub]

I have some old Lightening, I'd send one to someone for testing. I'm curious to see what angle the disc snaps in two, which is what I believe will happen to those old rock hard Lightening discs.

 

[Sadjo]

After reading this and the other thread, I grabbed a box of about 20 discs, all backups I carry in my trunk, and 'field tested' them. I took each disc, locked my fingers, had the disc between the heals of my hands and bent each disc without much effort.

While this wasn't scientific test, it was about 40 degrees outside and each disc bent to the point of looking like a taco and each disc went back to its normally shape within a couple of minutes. Most of them right away.

I did this with old school Scorpions, Star Wraiths, DX Leopard's, Star and Champion Makos, A Star Star Fire and Wizard. Not sure of the Wizard plastic...it was a tourney stamped disc and I don't normally throw Wizards.

Anyway...while not under ideal conditions, I think each one of those discs would pass if 'officially' tested.

 

[rakeyohn]

Best thing that can come of this is innova and DC realizing that plastic they have been making lately is complete junk. More ridged, less durability, and no grip. I love my putters super stiff but I want the days of pearly beast/monster plastic back..

 

[New013]

so that new champion plastic they're running the roc3's, new md2's, new FD's in sucks huh? cuz from my perspective it's really nice and grippy.

there's also a lot of people that love the rigid firebirds, why would you want a flimsy firebird? firmer skips better, goes through limbs better and rolls better which is 90% of what i use my firebird for.

 

[rakeyohn]

If that's the same stuff the new beasts and totems were ran in and by nice and grippy you meant slick and junky then yes. For all I know that stuff beats in amazingly but I won't throw it enough to get it there.

 

[MDethCKR]

Don't get me wrong I love the rigid FBs with the new Climo stamp....but they've only replaced $ of 11x for me. Now it's hard to find the older style domey 12x

Nothing beats those domey 12x for control flicks. I also can't flex-shot the stiffy flat 12x

 

[New013]

If that's the same stuff the new beasts and totems were ran in and by nice and grippy you meant slick and junky then yes. For all I know that stuff beats in amazingly but I won't throw it enough to get it there.

yea you got me, by nice and grippy i did mean slick and junky. because that totally makes sense. did i say beasts and totems?

 

[rakeyohn]

If that's the same as?? I'm pretty sure that was in there somewhere. I'm pretty sure that the beasts and totems were rolled out in the new champ plastic and is gasp.. ridgid and slick. Maybe I just don't get as excited as others at the opportunity to buy a product that is marginally less crappy while still maintaining a high level of crap. Not bashing innova, I just expect more from the world's largest disc manufacture.

 

[New013]

dude all i can tell you is that i have a new CMD2 and it's just as grippy as my GL Fuse, if you just have some inner hate towards innova that's blinding you i hope you seek therapy.

 

[elnino]

The PDGA doesn't formally announce discs that fail. There hasn't been a PDGA announcement of the G9i failing, but Gateway has been telling people that they did. We have no way of knowing what discs have been tested, what discs have failed and what (if any) punishment there was. We only know it if the Manufacturer reveals it.

Steve Howle said that his original run of F-15 Eagles were too small in diameter; the "floater" plastic shrunk more than he expected. He either had to alter the plastic mix or alter the mold, and I'm not sure which one he did. At any rate, he released the original run without "PDGA Approved" on the stamp, resubmitted the disc after he worked out the problem, got the disc approved and put them on the market with "PDGA Approved" on the stamp. None of that was announced by the PDGA. The only reason we knew what was going on was because when you called Lightning to order Eagles, Steve would tell you the deal. That really hasn't changed.

so if they never announce it all these talks are for nothing because if pdga doesn't announce it then the TD can't look it up or show the player data to make it illegal.

i think safety is important lets not kill dog walkers or kids cutting thru to get to class.