First form check!

[Brychanus]

Oops, front view here:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/650672863

 

[Brychanus]

I made more progress after I read your comment about the knee & ankle. Here's a new vid with some of the better swings from a slightly wider stance:
Vid 1

Knee's still creeping a bit back, but I felt a lot more leverage from the drive leg in this stance. I really tried to focus on leveraging forward and getting the hip rock/skate. If I don't get the skate & drag my rear leg, it's pulling me slightly off balance to the left, but if I do get it I end up perfectly balanced on the right leg. When I hit it better, even with these relatively slow swings, the disc is now accelerating enough that I'm having trouble keeping it in my hand.

I tried an even wider stance, but I was having trouble getting my hip action engaged in time once I lifted my front foot because it would plant *too* quickly. I notice in your backhand video you land on a bent (but firm) front leg from a pretty wide stance - perhaps that's allowing your extension/hips to fully activate.

 

[sidewinder22]

Start of backswing looks better.

1. You need to bend/hinge/squat/sit at the hip in transition. You are staying extended.

2. I would not allow the disc to pivot inside. If I let it pivot on a full swing it's gone. Make the disc pull your hand into the finish without it pivoting. Also maintain more control at the top of the backswing, you are letting it go too much instead of loading your wrist more.

 

[Brychanus]

Great!

Here I'm aiming to get that squat. First three are relatively light to find balance. Last 4 I really tried to put my weight into it.

Bent Knee One Steps

Grip in the backswing now feels quite a lot like I'm holding a hammer at the apex and through the hit. Fingers are more under disc and there's hopefully less/no backwards rotation. Still have to be careful not to let pivot after hit indoors

 

[sidewinder22]

Keep your wrist firmer//springier/more closed thru the hit like a hammer. Your wrist is really floppy.

I'm guessing that you are not aiming 90 degrees from camera?

 

[Brychanus]

I'm guessing that you are not aiming 90 degrees from camera?

Yes, sorry. To get a full extension/follow w/ this new form, I started to aim more toward the opposite corner of the room since I couldn't get a good camera angle otherwise. Might be able to rig up something for the camera with a better angle relative to my body for any indoor motions.

For my floppy wrist syndrome, I revisited the Wrist Activation thread too. Let me make sure I understand exactly what feeling I should take from holding a hammer to a light disc. It should feel more like there's wrist tension/cocking into the pocket that further loads into the hit, then "springs" as I go through hit, right? So in that case, as long as I'm not muscularly too tense/slowing myself down with my arm, starting and staying cocked is effective (e.g., Ricky Wysocki or similar throwers)? And that would be consistent w/ Golden Spiral Arc theory?

If the big pieces are looking better, I'll get back to the field next chance. Trying to let that lingering shoulder/pec issue from my old form resolve fully the next of couple days before I throw again.

 

[Brychanus]

Been drilling lots of one steps including w/ a hammer in my basement to focus on wrist position & tension. One step balance & transfer is quickly feeling more and more natural for shots ~320' and in.

Drill to critique
-At home practice: Been working on itty-bitty x-steps. I try to find the right leverage point for the drive leg & balance. Please let me know how this x-step practice drill is looking. I took this one a couple days ago, shortly after the last one step vid w/ floppy wrist. Still aiming at opposite corner of room.
Some X Steps
Otherwise, have been working on adding a firmer wrist.

Fieldwork to critique
Throwing 350' plus is still messy. As you will see, I'm struggling with scaling the new mechanics up. Four representative throws from today:
4 Throws

-Throw 1 Form looked different than the other three. It looks like I get more power behind the brace. Something's still off and I bring my weight forward on my left foot at the end. These seem to push 400' when I get the angle right.
-Throw 2 looked very clunky. I think when I was focused on fixing my wrist & wing down & may have tensed up too much during the reachback. Weight is back & I'm dragging rather than "skating" the drive leg.
-Throw 3 X-step is too long. Again drive leg weight is back, no "skate" & dragging along. Wing is down.
-Throw 4 X-step might still be a tad long. "Skate" is a bit better but looks like it jams forward or something. Wing is down again.

Specific Q's:
-Is Throw 1 actually an improvement?
-What should I drill down on first to rein in the distance shots?

If "take it slower" is part of the advice, I will do that


Progress notes from a round today:
-Short tees w/ rec friends today. Only one steps or tiny X-steps, all neutral putters & mids. 300' and in is getting more effortless quickly. Doing elephants, pendulums, & practice swings helped remind my body to use the new mechanics. My wrist was fairly floppy the first 9 warm up holes while trying to focus on the weight shift. The old mechanics feel so much worse to me now that I can stop before I commit the throw and reset myself.

-Then, we played a full 18 and I really focused on getting a firmer wrist. Weigh transfers continued to feel cleaner w/ good balance. Firmer wrist added consistency and distance. I was reaching baskets more easily & birdied an uphill hole that I've never reached twice. I accidentally overshot a couple baskets with slower discs than I typically throw. A few bogies, but a couple more birdies!

-Still got some lingering pec/shoulder stuff, but my new form w/in 300' doesn't aggravate it. Crappy distance shots do. Throw 1 & similar distance shots did not seem to. Will be resting again & work on home drills.

 

[sidewinder22]

Rear foot too backwards. Your shoulder rotation is still backwards. I would practice using a full forward pump and disc wing up at top of backswing.

Watch Paul on his practice swing at very beginning - his wrist is basically locked all the way to the finish.

 

[Brychanus]

Rear foot too backwards. Your shoulder rotation is still backwards. I would practice using a full forward pump and disc wing up at top of backswing.

Watch Paul on his practice swing at very beginning - his wrist is basically locked all the way to the finish.

Awesome, thanks. If I get that wing up consistently in the back swing, it should cause my shoulder to automatically rotate correctly, right?

 

[Brychanus]

And: what form model(s) would you recommend for me?

Asking b/c I Revisited Drive Leg/ER/IR dominant after you reminded me about my drive foot. I'm speculating that I'm more IR dominant based on where I find leverage, but unsure. I'm "top heavy" w/higher CoG in the torso. My limbs aren't very long.

For overall stance, I see bits of Ezra (minding arm angles), maybe a bit of Drew Gibson (sans lumbar twist/"bunching" against brace).

 

[Brychanus]

Grabbed lunch break vids of new drills. It's hammer time!

Stiff wrist practice swings: Hammer then disc
Trying to get hammer orientation & arm rotation correct too.
Vid 1

Hammer Swings X-steps
Vid 2

Stiff Wrist X-steps
3 Progressively heavier swings. Aiming to improve drive foot angle, get stiff wrist, and reachback w/ the wing up & correct rotation. Not sure if wrist looks ok entering pocket.
Vid 3

 

[sidewinder22]

Might be some grip issue with both hammer and disc. Use a fan grip on disc. Put your thumb on back of hammer handle for more control to leverage it sideways to target like hitting a nail on a wall. You would never have the hammer head facing the ground like that perpendicular to the nail and have to twist your arm to square the head.

Slow down, and finish the followthru all the way around smooth and pulled taut like Paul on his practice swing. You are jabbing the hammer/disc too quick and your arm bounces with slack and stops short in the finish. Looks like you are trying to curl your arm in too much around the disc and trying to keep it too flat instead of sending it and your arm out away from you.

 

[Brychanus]

How are these? Modified fan grip pics also attached. I based this grip off of the one in Post 11 and have been using it since then.

Hammer Swings
Vid 1

Disc Swings
Vid 2

In these swings, I feel like the arm is a smoother piece of the compound pendulum that is supported by my shoulder. To maintain this feeling, there is some tension throughout the arm motion that feels natural when I swing the hammer, but I'm not fully flexing any muscle. Mechanically, it seems more like the limb of a bow or a tough rawhide whip.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are curling the hammer back too much and slowing down/lazy into the hit/finish.

Note how when I go in slow motion, my elbow is leading and the hammer handle lags straight back behind the elbow, not curling in behind. Also note the high finish and followthru all the way around back behind me with left shoulder/arm pointed to target like bowling lefty. The hammer is pulling/pivoting my left side to the target in the finish.

When I loosen up, the hammer swings a lower pendulum. If I were to speed it up, centripetal force will pull it upward/horizontal like olympic hammer throw and also risk throwing the hammer into my tv accidentally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo#t=7m44s

 

[Brychanus]

Trying again. Quick vid w/ a pendulum hammer, then slow swings w/ hammer, then slow swings w/ the disc accelerating at the pocket.

Vid

Here, the "swing thought" is a loose dingle arm but w/ more wrist tension rather than a "bow"-like limb.

Once I get this right I'm going to try the hammer pendulums outside when there's no risk to TVs and windows

 

[sidewinder22]

The first part your hammer is hitting the nail with the side of the head instead of the head. Your swing extension is sawing off to right with shoulders opening, instead of extending out wide to the left with shoulders closed to target.

The slow motion part maintained better hammer head integrity, but you are opening up your shoulders/chest to target and hammering a nail 90 degrees to the right - WTF Richard, instead of staying closed thru the hit to hit a nail straight out to target. The release/followthru should pull your shoulder/chest open. Extend out wide to the left with shoulders/chest still closed to target.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=8m26s

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Brychanus]

Holy upper body whack-a-mole, Batman! This is isolating all kinds of weird compensatory stuff.

Let's see how these changes look.

First I'm doing perpetual swings w/ a hammer, trying to maintain hammer head orientation w/ closed shoulders.
Then, I'm doing the slow hammer swings w/ a closed shoulders. Next, w/ the disc in hand. Finally, I do a couple one steps and x-steps aiming to integrate the new lesson.

Video here:
Vid 1

Thanks for WTF Richard, I will never not laugh at it.

 

[sidewinder22]

That looks better. Now you need to some shoulder tilt instead of turning shoulders horizontal.

 

[Brychanus]

Cool!

Ok, trying for more tilt. Here's a slow swing but w/ more shoulder tilt, then a one step and a couple x-steps.

Shoulder tilting:
Vid

Wrist is hit-and-miss across swing reps, I'm going to have to drill a lot w/ and w/out the hammer until it's consistent w/ a disc in hand.