Form Analysis

[slaughter]

https://youtu.be/nZ7MJ0bOiyE
This is a video of about a 370 ft throw. I have been playing for a year, and have been stuck at about this point for about 3 months. I'm frustrated because I am not sure what is going wrong with my form. I feels like I am putting a lot of energy into the disc but there's something missing. Every now and then I have a throw that feels really easy and goes the same distance but they mostly go this far with what feels like lots of work. I don't know where to start in terms of improving this distance. For reference I am 6'4" with a 6' 9" wingspan.

I throw distance drivers from 375-400', fairways around 340-350', mids up to 330', and putters up to 315'. Max distance with drivers comes from a flex shot.

 

[sidewinder22]

No video there.

Should feel effortless.

 

[slaughter]

I think I fixed the link

 

[PWaggoner]

This should be a interesting one. Looking forward to some better critiquers then I.

I think it looks pretty good till the finish, especially for playing such a short time. I'm envious.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are hitting the top of your backswing way before your front foot plants and dragging or accelerating the disc forward early, so you are losing precious acceleration when it matters most after the front foot plants. Note how Lizotte doesn't reach the top of his backswing until the front foot plants, then the disc starts accelerating forward. You need to leave the disc behind you and keep turning/extending back as you move forward into the plant. See Door Frame Drills.

You also aren't planting into your front heel, and end up snapping the leg and going over top it. Note how your front is swinging/striding way around outside the rear foot and plants inward. Lizotte strides the front foot right over the rear foot and goes inside out. See Crush the Can and Kick the Can.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

 

[slaughter]

Thank you so much, excited to make these changes.

Would changing the plant foot help with consistency, power, or both?

 

[sidewinder22]

Thank you so much, excited to make these changes.

Would changing the plant foot help with consistency, power, or both?

Everything.

 

[slaughter]

I've been working on fixing the timing especially, but my body can't seem to figure it out. If I slow down and force the timing, I lose all weight shift I was getting. When I try it a bit quicker to get the weight shift into it, I revert back to bad timing. Should I just keep working on door frame drills and kick the can? Thanks

 

[slowplastic]

It's best to feel the leverage, it's way slower with a hammer or something heavy but you'll feel when to plant in relation to the backswing and forward swing. Then it will hopefully just "make sense" with your body instead of trying to do what is "right".

Notice how a foot always plants when the swing is in transition, before moving it that way. For example the left foot will plant or touch down before the backswing is engaged, then at the transition the right/brace foot plants, then the forward swing starts. And it's easiest with a pre-pump forward before the left foot plant and backswing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Weightshift leads the swing sequence. The swing should be automatic if you levage your weight against the door frame and let go and then heel plants like in best downswing weightshift vid above - weightshift is only about 1" long. Compact shift is quicker more sudden change in acceleration than a long shift. Also see Inside Swing Drill.

 

[billyjacko]

I've been working on fixing the timing especially, but my body can't seem to figure it out. If I slow down and force the timing, I lose all weight shift I was getting.

A big part of your issue with the reach back timing is your upper arm angle to shoulder angle is disconnected throughout the entire backswing. Your timing with turning the shoulders back is good (begin turning back with the rear foot comes down in the x-step), but you reach the disc straight out back with your arm. Almost like your hugging yourself in reverse, then your shoulders catch up right before you start to pull. It looks like you keep decent arm angles through the throw (besides curling the wrist). I know you'll feel stupid doing it, but really go toss some hammers around. If you did that with a hammer, you'd pull your shoulder out of its socket. You want to stay connected through the entire throw, and really focus on the upper arm to shoulder angle in the backswing as well as the forward swing.

 

[slaughter]

So the upper arm is at a right angle to the chest for most of the throw right? Does the angle increase when driving the elbow past the right pec? Also is curling the wrist a really bad thing to do? I feel like I get more spin on the disc when I do it, but I'm not sure if it does so. Also not sure where the disc should be after the right pec and my arm starts extending.

 

[sidewinder22]

So the upper arm is at a right angle to the chest for most of the throw right? Does the angle increase when driving the elbow past the right pec? Also is curling the wrist a really bad thing to do? I feel like I get more spin on the disc when I do it, but I'm not sure if it does so. Also not sure where the disc should be after the right pec and my arm starts extending.

Upper arm way wider than 90, closer to 180 in backswing and release, it will collapse/lag during the swing if you accelerate from the ground up. Curling is no bueno, locked wrist, only slight bend/lag/spring. Use your body, not your arm. Spin/torque is the byproduct of leverage. If you try to create spin/torque you are wasting a ton of leverage/force. Don't worry about getting to the right pec, feel leverage on the disc slinging the disc away from your center.

 

[slaughter]

https://youtu.be/jcsRCj785xs
Here's a new video. The timing feels way better than before, but everything feels slower. Putters and mids specifically are going much better while drivers of any kind don't seem to be very easy or go as far. Not sure why I'm I having such different experiences based on disc type. For reference, the mid I threw went maybe 60ft past the putters and the distance drivers went 40 past the mid.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Here's a new video. The timing feels way better than before, but everything feels slower. Putters and mids specifically are going much better while drivers of any kind don't seem to be very easy or go as far. Not sure why I'm I having such different experiences based on disc type. For reference, the mid I threw went maybe 60ft past the putters and the distance drivers went 40 past the mid.

You can still slow down a LOT more, especially with the drivers.

The differences in distance is nose angle. Putters and mids are less sensitive than drivers to nose angle, but also from the start of those throws to the end your form is breaking as you get to higher speed discs more. REALLY take some energy out of the throw with the higher speed stuff. But... if you look at the frame just as the disc is leaving your hand in the first throw vs. the one at 1:45 the nose angle goes from nose down to nose up pretty dramatically.

 

[slowplastic]

It looks like with drivers, like the last throws you are trying to flex them and probably thinking that you have to throw them hard. If you're working on form and wanting to throw high speed stuff, throw something you can easily turn -1 or -2 so you can release slight hyzer and know it will still carry. Something like a Sword/Trespass/Tern range will work for the 350+ thrower who wants something workable.

You are not on the front leg, you are kind of on top and to the left of it, getting jammed and then falling backward to your back leg. I would definitely recommend doing the one leg throws and film it. The balance point will be way farther forward than you think, and this will let you actually get onto the front leg so you can follow through smoothly and easily with less strain.

In your X-step you are turned backward too much and walking backwards with neutral hips, rather than moving more laterally so you load into the rear hip.

As far as distances, I typically expect 30-40' between disc classes for myself like putters-mids-fairways-high speed. Also you need a lot of velocity to throw stable distance drivers far, and judging by your release angle you are throwing stable ones. I'm actually more surprised at the 60' between putters and mids, that is a much bigger gap than I would expect at your range.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are doing what feels very powerful, but is extremely inefficient. It's going to feel very weird changing your balance and posture like there's not going to be any power possible, but you have to trust it and try it, and you will feel effortless distance.

You are still curling/bending your arm into awkward positions and not extending the backswing away from you like Door Frame Drills. Note how Simon's wrist is locked straight extended out, it's not bending or curling inward. The disc is bent way off plane to your forearm, should be straight in plane with forearm. You are launching your upper body over top your front leg from the rear side, instead of shifting everything forward from underneath you. So you end up swinging downward/nose up in the followthrough instead of upward/nose down.

 

[slaughter]

https://youtu.be/OYBU1pIV8FU
The first throw is a one leg drill. It feels quite different, but I wasn't getting any efforltess distance with it. Very short throws with it. The others are standstills with each throw using a faster disc. The orangle Eagle went as far or farther than the Blue Scorpius, probably due to the extra rotation on that throw(how it felt). Thanks to everyone for everything, things are slowly changing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Not sure what direction is the camera facing, and where you trying throw? You aren't ever balanced on your front leg.

 

[slaughter]

I did some field work today since the weather was so nice. I had a big breakthrough in that I fixed my shoulder timing. Now the reachback and shoulders move when they're supposed to. Every thing feels much easier and I have had some surprisingly far throws with putters and fairways. Obviously it's not perfect yet, but just wondering what steps to take next. The videos and drills from sw22 and loopghost have been great help over the winter months. Thanks to everyone that has been helping!
https://youtu.be/-GTRkFm21LU