Getting back into disc golf, would like form critique

[guccimane]

Hi all,

I'm getting back into disc golf after probably around 6-7 years since I last played seriously. Since winter is coming and I'm shaking the rust off, I would like to take this opportunity to rebuild my form. I've been lurking here the last couple of days, and it seems a lot of the technique conversations have advanced since I last played; when I was first trying to learn to throw far, most of it focused on Right Pec Drills. I'm excited to start learning more, especially around engaging the lower body.

Here is a video of 4 drives I did today (apologies for the backlighting on the side view drives, hoping to get better lighting soon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oxSoCYrCCk



Drive 1: P-PD, high turnover shot that went 370-375', best shot of the bunch
Drive 2: Star eagle slight hyzer shot, didn't turn probably because it was nose up, went around 325-330', not a great shot
Drive 3: P-PD, low line about 10 feet off of the ground, 330-335'
Drive 4: Star eagle, medium height and flat, 340'

All drives measured with google maps based on landmarks. During this practice session, best drive was a P-PD at around 385'. I think I could get a bit drivers further, because I have some bad nose up angle issues and have never been comfortable throwing much past a speed 7 disc (things like destroyers and PDs go maybe 5' past eagles unless I really get a good throw, 1 in 5 throws).

My current thoughts have to do with balance and the way my pivot leg looks; I think when I plant, my knee is bending (in a bad way) and absorbing all of the momentum i've generated instead of "blocking" off of it to engage the lower body more. I also feel like the power I'm generating is wasted in my follow through after the throw, because I'm traveling forward/rotating a lot, instead of being in a balanced one leg position on my pivot foot.

Let me know what you all see!

 

[sidewinder22]

Swing looks good and agree with you. You kind of retract your leg going into the plant instead of sticking your front leg into the ground like a shifty running back. You also need better balance/hip depth on rear foot. Your balance is kind stuck between your feet instead of shifting from one leg balance to one leg balance.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[guccimane]

Swing looks good and agree with you. You kind of retract your leg going into the plant instead of sticking your front leg into the ground like a shifty running back. You also need better balance/hip depth on rear foot. Your balance is kind stuck between your feet instead of shifting from one leg balance to one leg balance.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

In the Finish thread the one leg drill seems very helpful and make a lot of sense, I will try that out next time I'm in the field. The posture video was also helpful, as I feel my torso is often feels very upright and I think this contributes to messing up the weight shift.

I'm struggling to understand the swivel hips video and what I'm supposed to be feeling from that action. Should I be letting the hips "load" and "unload" naturally, or should I be actively moving them into position, if that makes sense. Or is it just a way to feel the positions the hips should be in?

The KJ gif I quoted seems very important, I'm going to continue to look at it; incorporating an exaggerated practice weight shift into the pre-shot routine serves as a great reminder.

that comparison with Paige is great; I definitely feel when I'm hitting the disc with my weight spread between both legs, and I'll also hit the disc on my front leg (usually when i take a big boy run-up, resulting in a shank or a 100 foot high drive), but my weight has been shifted sort of "over" my pivot foot, not into the ground, kind of tipping me over my leg, versus driving into it, if that makes sense.

Does it make sense to practice without an X-step or from a single step (or even a standstill)? or is it easier to feel the weight shift with some of that movement before the plant foot?

I really appreciate the help. Thank you.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm struggling to understand the swivel hips video and what I'm supposed to be feeling from that action. Should I be letting the hips "load" and "unload" naturally, or should I be actively moving them into position, if that makes sense. Or is it just a way to feel the positions the hips should be in?


Does it make sense to practice without an X-step or from a single step (or even a standstill)? or is it easier to feel the weight shift with some of that movement before the plant foot?

Should happen rather naturally going down the steps and bracing up on the front leg instead of it collapsing.

Easier to feel moving a few inches between your feet back and forth, a quick/compact/sudden shift. X-step is harder to feel only moving in targetward direction on rear foot and easier to cheat.

 

[guccimane]

thinking more about some of those baseball swings linked in one of the threads you posted, and thinking about the similarities and differences between a disc golf throw.

I was in my yard swinging random objects and discs with both hands together, copying the swing on the right side of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOi4Pn6XPqY&feature=emb_title

and lifting the lead/pivot foot up a couple of inches and then back down as the swing comes forward definitely feels different in my lower body compared to when I'm throwing with my normal form, and I think i'm feeling the weight shift experience more.

when I was swinging my discs around with a straight arm, I immediately thought of David Feldberg's form where the elbow is rather straight throughout the throw, and I wanted to compare his form to a baseball swing where you also keep the arms relatively straight, compared to a disc golf throw:

And i'm curious about the difference in hip angle. Obviously the goals of swinging a bat vs disc are different, and the way i'm thinking about it is that in a baseball swing, the wrist to the sweet spot on the bat are similar to a disc golfer's elbow to hand/wrist, in that the goal is to use the body and timing to unload the sweet spot/hand at the most powerful part of the motion. Something like this:

I'm wondering if this adjustment for lever length is part of what causes discrepancy (among many other things) in hip positions between the sports.

 

[etdefender19]

I'm wondering if this adjustment for lever length is part of what causes discrepancy (among many other things) in hip positions between the sports.

Oversimplified, you lead with your hands more in the baseball swing, elbow more in the DG shot

"Throw your hands at it" is common baseball advice. I'm no form guru, but I think that would be terrible DG advice

Where the mechanics are very similar is the lower body and weight transfer

Two cents from the baseball guy

 

[sidewinder22]

I kind of think of the lower arm as the bat.

I think the hip angle has more to do with swinging one arm vs two arm, and also trajectory and nose angle.

 

[guccimane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NZ6yC6G2mA

Link to today's practice. I was throwing standstill with all of my weight on my lead leg. Sorry for portrait mode, I messed up. Lighting is better though...

1st throw: Eagle turned over into headwind/crosswind, some OAT as well, no more than 275'
2nd throw: S-PD nicer cleaner line drive, maybe just short of 300'
3rd throw: Bad timing and late release, turned a Roc over into wind, 10 shorter than the eagle
4th Throw: Felt the best, straight high roc shot around 280'. But my follow through was still rotational and not as balanced as some of the other shots.

Best throw, not videoed: Destroyer 340' line drive (felt effortless too, my arm felt like it was just along for the ride.) Roc 290'-300' 12ish feet off the ground
Average for session: 290' with fairway drivers, 270' with midranges.

Observations:
I think the first 20 throws I was strong arming them, and they improved as I relaxed my arm and let it swing naturally in a sort of rhythm.

Tough to get a full reachback and keep balance, so I think if I can figure out how to get more reach while maintaining balance, I can get some more D on the single leg.

My knee still looks collapsed, I think it scares me to have a straighter knee. It looks like I'm sitting my ass down during the throw and my knee is bending, so my weight isn't being effectively transferred up, it's dipping down. With the single leg drill, obviously there's no weight shift, but this collapsing is definitely loosing energy vs. a stiffer leg.

Really open banana chest/arched back posture in most of the finishes, I'm not leaning over the disc like I think I should.


Questions:

where should I be placing my weight on my pivot foot? I've read that the arch/instep is where you should get to when your planting, so I'm thinking like the center image:

The first ten throws, I definitely had my weight all on my heel before I caught myself. Shifting more towards the center/ball of foot felt like a more balanced stance.

Next question, do I start the action with hips? for example, move my hips first and let my torso and body whip around? Or does it happen more simultaneously? I feel like I'm feeling where my weight should be, but I don't feel like I'm utilizing my hips correctly at all, and when I'm treating my pivot leg femur as a hinge, it doesn't feel super activated, more passive. This might partly be because I'm throwing off one leg and not getting a real "weight shift".

 

[sidewinder22]

Too literal in one leg drill and over top it.

Rear leg should be used like a kickstand on a bicycle to keep from falling backwards while keeping pressure forward against front leg in the backswing. Tilted Spiral is basically one leg drill , pay attention to where he talks about "feeling" like your weight stays on front leg, but in reality it shifts back for a second and bounces back into the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m30s

 

[sidewinder22]

where should I be placing my weight on my pivot foot? I've read that the arch/instep is where you should get to when your planting, so I'm thinking like the center image:

The first ten throws, I definitely had my weight all on my heel before I caught myself. Shifting more towards the center/ball of foot felt like a more balanced stance.

Next question, do I start the action with hips? for example, move my hips first and let my torso and body whip around? Or does it happen more simultaneously? I feel like I'm feeling where my weight should be, but I don't feel like I'm utilizing my hips correctly at all, and when I'm treating my pivot leg femur as a hinge, it doesn't feel super activated, more passive. This might partly be because I'm throwing off one leg and not getting a real "weight shift".

The pressure should move/roll along the foot throughout the backswing and forward swing. Standing static the CoP on the foot should relatively centered on the arch. When you make a move to the backswing the CoP on the foot should react/counter balance to the backswing pulling away.

 

[guccimane]

Here's today's field work, focusing on standstills where I'm shifting my weight back to front into a balanced position in the finish.



The main thing I'm seeing is that when I'm pushing off my rear leg, it's going up and not forward, and I'm still finishing with an arched back posture/chest forward. My rear leg is going up a lot, I think to counterbalance my bad finish posture. I also think the rear leg is driving up, making me fall over the top of my pivot leg pushing my upper body over the pivot leg and forward, vs. driving my weight into the braced pivot leg.

I had a couple of throws that felt sort of strong and went sort of far, but right now it feels like I'm barely throwing. Throwing like this introduced some significant OAT into my throw, which I think is because my timing is totally screwed up. I think (hope) that will work itself out in time as I work out the lower body issues.

I am feeling more balanced throughout the throw, but I can definitely tell i'm not getting much or any power from my lower body with the topple over.

Best drives like this were 330-340' with S-PD.

 

[guccimane]

Too literal in one leg drill and over top it.

Rear leg should be used like a kickstand on a bicycle to keep from falling backwards while keeping pressure forward against front leg in the backswing. Tilted Spiral is basically one leg drill , pay attention to where he talks about "feeling" like your weight stays on front leg, but in reality it shifts back for a second and bounces back into the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m30s

I forgot to reply but these weight shift videos are really helpful, I've watched them a couple of times now. Thanks!

 

[UhhNegative]

Yep, you are right in your analysis. It's because your weight is still on the rear foot when you begin your forward swing. You are pushing with your rear foot to swing, instead of pushing off your rear foot into the front side BEFORE you swing. It's a classic mistake that most people make in the beginning.

Stance is way too wide and it prevents you from shifting your weight back and forth between your feet. Right now your weight is just kind of hanging out in the middle with no real shift happening.

 

[guccimane]

So when my reach back is it's farthest point, I should push off and shift to the pivot foot before my shoulders/upper body/arm/disc start swinging forward? The entire motion post reachback should take place on a planted/braced pivot leg?

I tried the one leg drill and didn't do it right, sidewinder said I took it to literally. I think I will give it another shot.

Too literal in one leg drill and over top it.

Rear leg should be used like a kickstand on a bicycle to keep from falling backwards while keeping pressure forward against front leg in the backswing. Tilted Spiral is basically one leg drill , pay attention to where he talks about "feeling" like your weight stays on front leg, but in reality it shifts back for a second and bounces back into the front leg.

This is the same idea behind that video right? you are actually shifting weight?

 

[UhhNegative]

So when my reach back is it's farthest point, I should push off and shift to the pivot foot before my shoulders/upper body/arm/disc start swinging forward? The entire motion post reachback should take place on a planted/braced pivot leg?

I tried the one leg drill and didn't do it right, sidewinder said I took it to literally. I think I will give it another shot.



This is the same idea behind that video right? you are actually shifting weight?

Actually before the farthest point of the reachback. Good rule of thumb is front foot toes down at max reachback. So max reachback is just momentarily before the plant foot heel plants.

With a stance that wide, the only way to shift weight back and forth is to pick up your front foot so your hips can go back far enough. Like a pitcher winding up for a pitch and he's on his back leg ready to stride out. Really you just don't want a stance that wide no matter how you slice it.

Honestly the weight shift in your very first video doing the x-step wasn't that bad, just a tad late.

 

[guccimane]

Actually before the farthest point of the reachback. Good rule of thumb is front foot toes down at max reachback. So max reachback is just momentarily before the plant foot heel plants.

With a stance that wide, the only way to shift weight back and forth is to pick up your front foot so your hips can go back far enough. Like a pitcher winding up for a pitch and he's on his back leg ready to stride out. Really you just don't want a stance that wide no matter how you slice it.

Honestly the weight shift in your very first video doing the x-step wasn't that bad, just a tad late.

So would you match frame 3's reachback position with frame 6's foot position, or something similar?

I think my stance was wide because I'm used to that from doing X-steps, which obviously allows you more motion. I'll narrow it next time.

(offhand finger position too powerful...)

 

[sidewinder22]

Correct, your 3 and 6 are basically what I'm talking about in first post.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

Your standstill setup stance is starting too wide, need to start more narrow/balanced and get/stride wider dynamically like a pitcher or batter.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3643219&postcount=54

 

[UhhNegative]

Yeah the X-step allows you to have a wider "stance" because its a dynamic movement and both feet aren't ever really on the ground at the same time. Even the "standstill" throw should be a dynamic movement like you see in sidewinders one leg drill video at the very beginning. He rocks back toward his rear foot, his rear foot resists and pushes the rear butt cheek toward the target, thats the weight shift "from behind", then he's ready to start unloading his levers.

 

[sidewinder22]

Walking perpendicular to the target might help more than walking targetward...
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[guccimane]

This is great stuff thanks everyone. Really wish I had more time to practice...

would it make sense to not practice from a standstill and instead from a 1-step, so I can get better timing with the reach back and the pivot foot? Or would it make more sense to try the one leg drill again but making sure I'm doing the proper weight shift (NOT throwing from one leg and making my leg sore for a couple days), and also try and time the reachback correctly while doing that?